so tired of seeking

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Harry
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby Harry » Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:52 am

I have been looking at thoughts daily and now there seems to be resistance to do this exercise again......so many other thoughts are coming in.....
When I say that the mind comes in and tries to dissuade me from the realization that all those body images are created by thoughts, it feels like that is the entity in the head, even though I know there is no entity in the head.....Oh I think Im all muddled up again......

Who does the thought ‘I am muddled’ happen to? Who is the mind trying to dissuade?

Now looking at who realizes that, it seems like a presence outside the body but Im not sure.....again I feel muddled..You are asking such simple but such great direct questions, and the mind is making everything seem so complicated so that as soon as I start looking for that answer, I get a fuzzy disoriented feeling in what I believe to be the head area.......I know I must look closer......I guess Im just feeling frustrated with these questions and something just wants to give any answer just to get them over with.....

What is frustration itself? How does it appear in the body? Who does tension in the body happen to? Or does it just happen?

Who does the fuzzy feeling happen to? Or, does it too just happen?

Who would give an answer just to get it over with? Who is in control of what is or isn’t said?

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mischa
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby mischa » Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:32 pm

Who does the thought ‘I am muddled’ happen to? Who is the mind trying to dissuade?
At first looking, it feels like it is the Ursula getting muddled....it is the Ursula that is getting dissuaded....but then I'm not sure if then thinking sets in....because then all of a sudden a thought came that these must be all just thoughts with no subject and no object.....because Ive heard over and over that the Ursula isn't real.....so there's really nobody there getting muddled or dissuaded....there's only thoughts going back and forth....I can see some truth in this but I hope Im not intellectualizing...I seem to get LOOKING mixed up with INTELLECTUALIZING....
What is frustration itself? How does it appear in the body? Who does tension in the body happen to? Or does it just happen?
Frustration is a feeling. It appears in the body as a kind of restlessness/tension with negative thoughts jumping around everywhere not in a coherent but in a disjointed way. When I am identifying with this body, then it feels like this tension happens to Ursula.....but at closer looking, there is just tension/frustration happening but then it gets linked to a body, an Ursula....
Who does the fuzzy feeling happen to? Or, does it too just happen?
At first looking, it feels like that fuzzy feeling is happeining to this body or Ursula....then I question the truth of your next question, and I can see then that it just happens, just like the tension/frustration in the previous question.......
Who would give an answer just to get it over with? Who is in control of what is or isn’t said?
At first looking, it seems like it is Ursula giving the answer....but at closer looking...hmmm, if that frustration and fuzzy feelings are just happening on their own with no doer, then I guess that answers too are just appearing out of nowhere with no doer either....that means that no one is in control of what is or isn't being said.....no controller, no doer.....wow I remember being aware of that before and then forgetting it...now it rings true more clearly...something is opening up...I will keep pondering on that.....I have heard many times that I am not the doer.....it's a hard thought to believe...but it is feeling more and more true....

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Harry
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby Harry » Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:12 pm

At first looking, it feels like it is the Ursula getting muddled....it is the Ursula that is getting dissuaded....but then I'm not sure if then thinking sets in....because then all of a sudden a thought came that these must be all just thoughts with no subject and no object.....because Ive heard over and over that the Ursula isn't real.....so there's really nobody there getting muddled or dissuaded....there's only thoughts going back and forth....I can see some truth in this but I hope Im not intellectualizing...I seem to get LOOKING mixed up with INTELLECTUALIZING....

Good… who mixes up looking and intellectualising?

Frustration is a feeling. It appears in the body as a kind of restlessness/tension with negative thoughts jumping around everywhere not in a coherent but in a disjointed way. When I am identifying with this body, then it feels like this tension happens to Ursula.....but at closer looking, there is just tension/frustration happening but then it gets linked to a body, an Ursula....

Who is identified with the body? What could identify with it? Is the body owned? To whom does it belong?

At first looking, it seems like it is Ursula giving the answer....but at closer looking...hmmm, if that frustration and fuzzy feelings are just happening on their own with no doer, then I guess that answers too are just appearing out of nowhere with no doer either....that means that no one is in control of what is or isn't being said.....no controller, no doer.....wow I remember being aware of that before and then forgetting it...now it rings true more clearly...something is opening up...I will keep pondering on that.....I have heard many times that I am not the doer.....it's a hard thought to believe...but it is feeling more and more true....

Great! There’s no need to believe it without evidence… you can always check your experience: Can you choose the next thought? Can you prevent the next thought? If you can’t control your thoughts, what else could you control?

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mischa
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby mischa » Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:04 pm

Good… who mixes up looking and intellectualising?
My first answer is Ursula, the I, but then at closer look, that seems fictitious somehow....it must be a thought?????
Who is identified with the body? What could identify with it? Is the body owned? To whom does it belong?
It is that "I", that voice in the head that is identified with the body...It's like there is an entity identifying with this body....Well I;m always saying MY BODY, so it feels like the ME owns this body, but I know there is NO ME....so then who or what owns the body??? I'm trying to imagine that there is no owner.....that there's just a body but no owner...things just happening, including thoughts just coming and going......
Great! There’s no need to believe it without evidence… you can always check your experience: Can you choose the next thought? Can you prevent the next thought? If you can’t control your thoughts, what else could you control?
No i Can't choose the next thought..
No I can't prevent the next thought
If I can't control my thoughts, then I guess I can't control anything????

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Harry
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby Harry » Sat Oct 08, 2022 4:05 am

My first answer is Ursula, the I, but then at closer look, that seems fictitious somehow....it must be a thought?????

There is the thought ‘Ursula/I’, but what does it refer to? Does it refer to anything in this experience?

It is that "I", that voice in the head that is identified with the body...It's like there is an entity identifying with this body....Well I’m always saying MY BODY, so it feels like the ME owns this body, but I know there is NO ME....so then who or what owns the body??? I'm trying to imagine that there is no owner.....that there's just a body but no owner...things just happening, including thoughts just coming and going......

Who know’s that there’s no me? Who’s trying to imagine? Or, are knowing and imagining just happening?

No i Can't choose the next thought..
No I can't prevent the next thought
If I can't control my thoughts, then I guess I can't control anything????

Good! Who can’t control thoughts? Do thoughts happen to someone (Ursula, for example 😂), or do they just happen?

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mischa
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby mischa » Sat Oct 08, 2022 2:28 pm

There is the thought ‘Ursula/I’, but what does it refer to? Does it refer to anything in this experience?
Hmm at first look it feels like Ursula/I is mixing up looking with intellectualizing, but if that is just a thought....does this thought just refer to another thought instead of an experience.....not sure...feels like a fuzzy answer.....and now the mind wants to analyze this so I better stop...now feeling like I don't understand the question...
It is that "I", that voice in the head that is identified with the body...It's like there is an entity identifying with this body....Well I’m always saying MY BODY, so it feels like the ME owns this body, but I know there is NO ME....so then who or what owns the body??? I'm trying to imagine that there is no owner.....that there's just a body but no owner...things just happening, including thoughts just coming and going......

Who know’s that there’s no me? Who’s trying to imagine? Or, are knowing and imagining just happening?
I just noticed that as soon as I read this question, a heat wave went through the body and a nervous tight tension in the stomach as if i am writing an exam and I need to find the right answer and I'm running out of time...the same feeling I used to have on tests/exams..I see that the high achiever in me is coming out here...so I'm taking a few deep breaths and telling myself that this is supposed to be a relaxed LOOKING exercise and I don't need to get all worked up about finding the right answer!!!

Hmmm, the first answer that appears is that its the ME knowing that theres NO ME..but there can't be 2 of ME so that doesn't make sense...Again it feels like the ME is trying to imagine but then how can the ME imagine that there is NO ME? that doesn't make sense....feeling muddled up....so now your words "knowing and imagining are just happening" ring true......that ME is appearing more and more unreal.......
Good! Who can’t control thoughts? Do thoughts happen to someone (Ursula, for example 😂), or do they just happen?
I can see that thoughts just happen...but somehow it still feels like they happen to an Ursula...so I know there is no controller of thoughts..so then saying " I can't control my thoughts" is just another thought ???? I feel like I'm going around in circles....like I'm close to a breakthrough but then get hazy again......

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Harry
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby Harry » Sat Oct 08, 2022 11:52 pm

Hmm at first look it feels like Ursula/I is mixing up looking with intellectualizing, but if that is just a thought....does this thought just refer to another thought instead of an experience.....not sure...feels like a fuzzy answer.....and now the mind wants to analyze this so I better stop...now feeling like I don't understand the question..

A confusion of intellectualising and looking may be happening, but who’s doing it? Is there anyone doing it?

I just noticed that as soon as I read this question, a heat wave went through the body and a nervous tight tension in the stomach as if i am writing an exam and I need to find the right answer and I'm running out of time...the same feeling I used to have on tests/exams..I see that the high achiever in me is coming out here...so I'm taking a few deep breaths and telling myself that this is supposed to be a relaxed LOOKING exercise and I don't need to get all worked up about finding the right answer!!!

You’re doing great, Ursula, no need to worry! …who would find the answer? Who would ‘do’ the finding? Is anyone in control here?

Hmmm, the first answer that appears is that its the ME knowing that theres NO ME..but there can't be 2 of ME so that doesn't make sense...Again it feels like the ME is trying to imagine but then how can the ME imagine that there is NO ME? that doesn't make sense....feeling muddled up....so now your words "knowing and imagining are just happening" ring true......that ME is appearing more and more unreal.......

What I’m pointing you towards is the one who takes credit for what happens… whether it’s knowing, imagining, seeing, looking, thinking, feeling, or anything else… is anyone there whose personally responsible for what happens?

Is anyone controlling or causing the next sound, sensation, sight, or thought?

Is there really any control or effort at all?

Or, is everything appearing on its own?


I can see that thoughts just happen...but somehow it still feels like they happen to an Ursula...so I know there is no controller of thoughts..so then saying " I can't control my thoughts" is just another thought ???? I feel like I'm going around in circles....like I'm close to a breakthrough but then get hazy again......

Good… seeing the lack of control is great, but it’s not enough... We need to find out who the Ursula is that can’t control her thoughts…

Are thoughts really ‘Ursula’s’, or are they just thoughts?
Do thoughts happen to anyone, or do they just happen?
Do thoughts belong to anyone, or do they just appear?
Are thoughts owned?
Is there anything about a thought itself (not it’s content) that implies it’s ‘yours’?
Who or what would or could own anything?

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mischa
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby mischa » Sun Oct 09, 2022 2:28 pm

A confusion of intellectualising and looking may be happening, but who’s doing it? Is there anyone doing it?
NO, today I really get the sense that there's no one doing it...it's just thoughts about looking and thoughts about intellectualizing....
You’re doing great, Ursula, no need to worry! …who would find the answer? Who would ‘do’ the finding? Is anyone in control here?
The first spontaneous answer I get without thinking too much is NO, there is no one to find the answer, there is NO ONE to DO the finding...there is NO ONE in control here......
What I’m pointing you towards is the one who takes credit for what happens… whether it’s knowing, imagining, seeing, looking, thinking, feeling, or anything else… is anyone there whose personally responsible for what happens?

Is anyone controlling or causing the next sound, sensation, sight, or thought?
Wow I love this question......it clears up so much confusion because all that confusion here comes from the belief in " the one who takes credit for what happens...whether its knowing, imagining, seeing,,looking,, thinking..feeling etc "
I can see now that there is NO ONE there who is personally responsible for what happens........
There is NO ONE there who is controlling or causing the next sound, sensation, sight or thought...they are all just happening WITHOUT A DOER......
Is there really any control or effort at all?
Or, is everything appearing on its own?
NO there really is NO control or effort at all
Everything is just appearing on its own......
seeing the lack of control is great, but it’s not enough... We need to find out who the Ursula is that can’t control her thoughts…

Are thoughts really ‘Ursula’s’, or are they just thoughts?
Do thoughts happen to anyone, or do they just happen?
Do thoughts belong to anyone, or do they just appear?
Are thoughts owned?
Is there anything about a thought itself (not it’s content) that implies it’s ‘yours’?
Who or what would or could own anything?
The thoughts still feel like Ursula's...
Somehow I know that thoughts just happen, but it feels like they're happening to an Ursula
Somehow I know that thoughts just appear yet it feels like here they are happening to an Ursula
Somehow I know that thoughts are just random and don't belong to anyone...they just appear out of nowhere
I know thoughts are not owned yet it feels here like Ursula owns her thoughts.....
Actually there's nothing about a thought itself that implies that it's "mine"...just that it seems to appear in "my head"
The only thing that could own anything is the Ursula....and I know Ursula is just thoughts but it still doesn't feel like that truly inside.........
I'm worried that you'll get frustrated and give up on me because I'm so slow in getting this!!!!!

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Harry
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby Harry » Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:50 am

NO, today I really get the sense that there's no one doing it...it's just thoughts about looking and thoughts about intellectualizing....
The first spontaneous answer I get without thinking too much is NO, there is no one to find the answer, there is NO ONE to DO the finding...there is NO ONE in control here......
Wow I love this question......it clears up so much confusion because all that confusion here comes from the belief in "the one who takes credit for what happens...whether its knowing, imagining, seeing ,looking, thinking, feeling etc"
I can see now that there is NO ONE there who is personally responsible for what happens........
There is NO ONE there who is controlling or causing the next sound, sensation, sight or thought...they are all just happening WITHOUT A DOER......
NO there really is NO control or effort at all
Everything is just appearing on its own......

Wow, Ursula! This is great! Seems really clear. How does it feel?

The thoughts still feel like Ursula's...
Somehow I know that thoughts just happen, but it feels like they're happening to an Ursula
Somehow I know that thoughts just appear yet it feels like here they are happening to an Ursula
Somehow I know that thoughts are just random and don't belong to anyone...they just appear out of nowhere
I know thoughts are not owned yet it feels here like Ursula owns her thoughts.....
Actually there's nothing about a thought itself that implies that it's "mine"...just that it seems to appear in "my head"
The only thing that could own anything is the Ursula....and I know Ursula is just thoughts but it still doesn't feel like that truly inside.........

Go to the feeling of ‘Ursula the owner of thoughts’…

How is this feeling appearing?
What is it?
Where is it?
Describe it to me as best you can…


I'm worried that you'll get frustrated and give up on me because I'm so slow in getting this!!!!!

Not at all! I’m having a great time exploring this with you. You’re doing well and I hope it’s enjoyable!

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mischa
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby mischa » Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:10 pm

Wow, Ursula! This is great! Seems really clear. How does it feel?
Yesterday it felt spacious as though I had some distance from that ME MYSELF I....
Today as I'm reading over this question and answer again, there is some sort of fear coming up in the pit of my stomach, like a feeling of lostness......like this space opening up of a feeling of unknownness which seems scary......
Go to the feeling of ‘Ursula the owner of thoughts’…

How is this feeling appearing?
What is it?
Where is it?
Describe it to me as best you can…
This feeling of "Ursula the owner of thoughts" appears as thoughts about it......
It feels like thoughts in my head are interacting with that feeling of Ursula that seems one with this ME feeling
It feels like this feeling of being an Ursula who is owning the thoughts is coming from inside my head.....
It's such a familiar feeling ...I can see that thoughts are just coming out of nowhere but at the same tme, it feels like the Ursula is watching those thoughts come and go as if they are her own.....
As I am looking out of the window I can see wisps of hair framing my face and this reinforces the feeling that I am Ursula sitting in this body looking out the window and watching my thoughts.......

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Harry
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby Harry » Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:22 am

Yesterday it felt spacious as though I had some distance from that ME MYSELF I....
Today as I'm reading over this question and answer again, there is some sort of fear coming up in the pit of my stomach, like a feeling of lostness......like this space opening up of a feeling of unknownness which seems scary......

What is it like to really feel and stay with this feeling of lostness and fear? What is it like when it is not labelled? What is the actual sensation when thoughts are discarded?

This feeling of "Ursula the owner of thoughts" appears as thoughts about it......
It feels like thoughts in my head are interacting with that feeling of Ursula that seems one with this ME feeling
It feels like this feeling of being an Ursula who is owning the thoughts is coming from inside my head.....
It's such a familiar feeling ...I can see that thoughts are just coming out of nowhere but at the same tme, it feels like the Ursula is watching those thoughts come and go as if they are her own.....
As I am looking out of the window I can see wisps of hair framing my face and this reinforces the feeling that I am Ursula sitting in this body looking out the window and watching my thoughts.......

If it feels like it’s coming from inside the head, where exactly in the head?

Is it felt in the top half, or the bottom half?

The front or the back?



Really try to go there and find it as precisely as you can. Let me know what’s there…

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mischa
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby mischa » Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:29 pm

What is it like to really feel and stay with this feeling of lostness and fear? What is it like when it is not labelled? What is the actual sensation when thoughts are discarded?
This morning I woke up with so much anxiety, fear, lostness and so I just sat and stayed with it....it was made up of sensations in the chest and stomach area....when I discarded all those labels and sat with it, it was like a tingling sensation that just spread out everywhere.......when trying to discard the thoughts, it was just like an energy vibrating and it seemed to just expand everywhere....
It feels like thoughts in my head are interacting with that feeling of Ursula that seems one with this ME feeling
It feels like this feeling of being an Ursula who is owning the thoughts is coming from inside my head.....
It's such a familiar feeling ...I can see that thoughts are just coming out of nowhere but at the same tme, it feels like the Ursula is watching those thoughts come and go as if they are her own.....
As I am looking out of the window I can see wisps of hair framing my face and this reinforces the feeling that I am Ursula sitting in this body looking out the window and watching my thoughts.......

If it feels like it’s coming from inside the head, where exactly in the head?
Is it felt in the top half, or the bottom half?
The front or the back?
Really try to go there and find it as precisely as you can. Let me know what’s there…
When I go inside and try to find where in the head is this feeling of Ursula, it feels like the Ursula is outside the head looking at the top half, the bottom half, the front , the back....and not finding the Ursula inside the head but rather as an entity above the head looking down at the head......I just kept getting lost in thoughts doing this exercise....and had to really concentrate hard to get back to thinking of finding Ursula in the head.....

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Harry
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby Harry » Thu Oct 13, 2022 8:43 am

This morning I woke up with so much anxiety, fear, lostness and so I just sat and stayed with it....it was made up of sensations in the chest and stomach area....when I discarded all those labels and sat with it, it was like a tingling sensation that just spread out everywhere.......when trying to discard the thoughts, it was just like an energy vibrating and it seemed to just expand everywhere....

Sorry to hear about this morning… I hope you feel ok.

Was this vibrating energy itself anxious, afraid, or lost?

When I go inside and try to find where in the head is this feeling of Ursula, it feels like the Ursula is outside the head looking at the top half, the bottom half, the front , the back....and not finding the Ursula inside the head but rather as an entity above the head looking down at the head......I just kept getting lost in thoughts doing this exercise....and had to really concentrate hard to get back to thinking of finding Ursula in the head.....

Ok so it’s an entity above the head… how big is it? What shape is it? What colour is it?

You’re doing really well!

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mischa
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby mischa » Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:07 pm

Sorry to hear about this morning… I hope you feel ok.
Was this vibrating energy itself anxious, afraid, or lost?
NO, this vibrating energy itself was NOT anxious, afraid or lost. It's like when the labels and thoughts faded somewhat , then what was left was just this vibrating energy with no more awareness of any anxiety, fear or lostness....only energy.....it was more neutral
Ok so it’s an entity above the head… how big is it? What shape is it? What colour is it?
Now I am sitting here with my eyes closed and trying to find that Ursula...First it feels like Ursula is this body, then I check all over and I don't find Ursula in the body...so then I am aware of the vibrating energy again but this time it is all around the body....not just above the head...I now realize i am visualizing an aura and that this comes from pictures I have seen of people's auras....so am trying to drop those visuals/labels now.......again I end up with this expanding sense of energy or vibration....
it has no size.........it has no shape.......it has no colour

Thx for the encouragement!

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Harry
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Re: so tired of seeking

Postby Harry » Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:25 am

NO, this vibrating energy itself was NOT anxious, afraid or lost. It's like when the labels and thoughts faded somewhat , then what was left was just this vibrating energy with no more awareness of any anxiety, fear or lostness....only energy.....it was more neutral

This is great! So you stayed close with your experience, going deeply into the feeling itself and finding neutrality... How does that feel?

Now I am sitting here with my eyes closed and trying to find that Ursula...First it feels like Ursula is this body, then I check all over and I don't find Ursula in the body...so then I am aware of the vibrating energy again but this time it is all around the body....not just above the head...I now realize i am visualizing an aura and that this comes from pictures I have seen of people's auras....so am trying to drop those visuals/labels now.......again I end up with this expanding sense of energy or vibration....
it has no size.........it has no shape.......it has no colour

That’s great you saw the visualisation. That’s an image - not a real Ursula! How does it feel to see that?

Is this shapeless size-less colourless energy located anywhere? Is it personal? Is it an Ursula?


Well done!


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