no self journey

[bombay17]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
"no inherent self" hints at the point that I, the conscious mind or the part which I call "me", is in fact not present and getting to this conclusion is what LU focuses/guides on. It also somehow suggests that "I" am just a very complex, temporary but functional collection of atoms, who identifies this collection as self.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am here to seek guidance as I enter the realm of spirituality. I do not possess much experience in this field and having a guide to help you navigate through this journey would be very helpful and productive. As with any subject, foundations or basics should be clear to dwell further, I want to build my foundations here and learn as much as possible from what the guide has to offer.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Hopefully this conversation would give me a different perspective of the world, helping me become a better person overall. And would learn about stress management as we move on with the conversation and gain an understanding of how one should handle emotions and situations in a more efficient/healthy way.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I dont have much experience, but i am really curious about spirituality. I do practice basic meditations daily for 10 minutes and would love to dwell further.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Lubo]

Hi Bombay,
Welcome to the forum.

My name is Lubo and I can joint you in this journey, if you are OK?
What name you prefer to call you?
Let's star with this:

... "I" am just a very complex, temporary but functional collection of atoms, who identifies this collection as self.

Look at the body, notice sensations and thoughts - is there someone who is this body, who is these thoughts, who is this sensation? Self who make them? - notice right now.
Is there someone who lives in the body or in the head?

Love
Lubo

[bombay17]

hello lubo,
I want to apologize for the late reply,

I can joint you in this journey, if you are OK?

yes ofcourse lubo please guide me through this,

Look at the body, notice sensations and thoughts - is there someone who is this body, who is these thoughts, who is this sensation? Self who make them? - notice right now.

these thoughts, my body and sensations they all add up to make me or they define who i am as a person, i mean they exist hence i do to. the thoughts alone or the sensations alone dont define me, when grouped together they make me. ps: how do I notice?

[bombay17]

hello lubo,
I want to apologize for the late reply,

I can joint you in this journey, if you are OK?

yes ofcourse lubo please guide me through this,

Look at the body, notice sensations and thoughts - is there someone who is this body, who is these thoughts, who is this sensation? Self who make them? - notice right now.

these thoughts, my body and sensations they all add up to make me or they define who i am as a person, i mean they exist hence i do to. the thoughts alone or the sensations alone dont define me, when grouped together they make me. ps: how do I notice?

[Lubo]

Hey, hi,
Thanks for the reply.
How you prefer to call you?

yes of course lubo please guide me through this,

Nice, thank you.

Look at the body, notice sensations and thoughts - is there someone who is this body, who is these thoughts, who is this sensation? Self who make them? - notice right now.

these thoughts, my body and sensations they all add up to make me or they define who i am as a person, i mean they exist hence i do to. the thoughts alone or the sensations alone dont define me, when grouped together they make me.

Wonderful, so. Notice that there is an identification that thoughts, body and sensations are someone's. This is exactly what you are looking for.
Is there an you who is this life, body, thoughts, sensations, movements of the body and etc. Is there someone who is cat, dog, human?
"they all add up to make me or they define who i am as a person," - notice without the story and identification - does the person exist in reality? Is there personality at all? or there is life lif-ing as this body, sensations, thoughts...?
Notice that the "person" point to some centre which makes something - Where the thoughts are coming from? Is it known what will be next thought before it appear?
Notice a movement of the body - is this movement personal?
or there is an identification with the body wich appears as belief- "There is an I which is this body and wich is responsible for the movements"?
Notice also - seeing that this I is an illusion and imagined construction, doesn't mean that something will change, just this imagined control and responsibility will drop, the voice of shame and guilt is nonsensе
What is coming when you read this?

ps: how do I notice?

Thanks for this question. Notice - points to share what is real but not the content of a thought.
Does a thought notice or there is noticing that there is a thought with content...?
Investigation here in LU is made by noticing what is going on here, but not thoughts about what is noticed , is it clear :)
Don't worry I am here to point you if you report content of a thoughts but not what is noticed.
I understand that this is an unusual way to see reality, but there really is no other way :)

Love
Lubo

[bombay17]

hello lubo,

How you prefer to call you?

you can call me bombay :)

i was expecting a notification on my email about your reply like the first time, i feel guilty writing this response this late please accept my apologizes

Is there an you who is this life, body, thoughts, sensations, movements of the body and etc. Is there someone who is cat, dog, human?
"they all add up to make me or they define who i am as a person," - notice without the story and identification - does the person exist in reality? Is there personality at all? or there is life lif-ing as this body, sensations, thoughts...?

i read your post multiple times, and i have realized that I do get what you are trying to say, but can not really comprehend it, all this information is quiet overwhelming for me. You are saying that the "me" doesnt exist, I want to accept this fact but the question remains how? this doubt is still there inside me. I think starting from the basics and some excerises regarding this would be very helpful for a beginner like me.
thanking you,
bombay

[Lubo]

Hi Bombay,
Thanks for the reply.
No problem, don't worry.
I am here for you. I will reply you every day.

I think starting from the basics and some excerises regarding this would be very helpful for a beginner like me.
thanking you,

Ok. Let's star from here:
What do you do precisely to be Bombay?
If I ask you to notice that there is just identification that is playing with Bombay, is it a problem to see it?

Have fun with this question,
Lubo

[bombay17]

hello lubo,

What do you do precisely to be Bombay?

wow, the more i think about it the more confusing it becomes,
the only answer which makes any kind of sense to me is that i dont really "do" anything to be bombay, i just am. ? i mean it is kind of a lazy answer. but if i dont do anything about it then how can i be "bombay"? and if i am not bombay then what/who am i? i exist right, so by that sense i am someone and that someone is called bombay,
to be very honest lubo, i dont know. is there something i should even do to be me? i dont think so

If I ask you to notice that there is just identification that is playing with Bombay, is it a problem to see it?

ok so i have labelled all my actions and all my thoughts as bombay, and somehow that label is a problem? or can you please explain this question in some other way.

thank you

[Lubo]

Hi Bombay,

What do you do precisely to be Bombay?

wow, the more i think about it the more confusing it becomes,
the only answer which makes any kind of sense to me is that i dont really "do" anything to be bombay, i just am. ? i mean it is kind of a lazy answer. but if i dont do anything about it then how can i be "bombay"? and if i am not bombay then what/who am i? i exist right, so by that sense i am someone and that someone is called bombay,
to be very honest lubo, i dont know. is there something i should even do to be me? i dont think so

Nice confusion :) Yes self is just a concept, there is no you who is Bombay. Thoughts are saying I do this, I do that.

In the same way is there someone in the kangaroo who make it to jump? to move the tale :) or kangaroo is how life shows up?
Take look at this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BbZTCdB2X4
Who lives kangaroo's life? Or this is how life appears?
Who lives Bombay's life? Or this is how life appears but not owner not mover, live-er of life?

If I ask you to notice that there is just identification that is playing with Bombay, is it a problem to see it?

ok so i have labelled all my actions and all my thoughts as bombay, and somehow that label is a problem? or can you please explain this question in some other way.

Label- I am Bombay, I live life is made by thoughts. The same way like thoughts are saying the kangaroo is jumping - but this is how life appears as kangaroo, as jumping. Does kangaroo have a free will or all actions are life how it shows up?
Does the kangaroo responsible for how life will shows up?
Life shows up as Bombay and as every action or there is free will independent from life? Who is independent from life? or these are concepts?
Does Bombay responsible how the life shows up as Bombay? or?
The key is to look, thoughts cannot figured out how things are!

Love
Lubo

[bombay17]

hello lubo,

Yes self is just a concept, there is no you who is Bombay. Thoughts are saying I do this, I do that.

okay i want to accept this fact that there is no "bombay", and i think by accepting this fact, it should change my perspective on life, or should have some form of impact. And i am currently looking for this perspective shift. but before that, I need to get my basics cleared up i believe.
if self is a concept then what am i?

In the same way is there someone in the kangaroo who make it to jump?

kangaroos react based on their immediate environment, they live in the moment and probably are not self aware, and thinking about this, we too are not very different from a kangaroo, obviously we cannot jump like them :), but we have an extra ability or an advantage of memory and self recognition. Apart from these two things we are not very different from a kangaroo, but instead of reacting based on real time environment like a kangaroo, this memory or thoughts play a very important factor in deciding our actions, our efficiency and our personality. So what no self tries to do (what i think, please correct me if i am wrong) is to downplay this baggage, that these thoughts should not affect my current actions. Whatever is real is the present, the thoughts in my head or who i call Bombay is just the baggage from the past, which somehow is not real.
But even if "self" is a concept, what is wrong in me being bombay? what is the harm in recognizing my self as someone?
thank you so much.

[Lubo]

Hi non-bombay :)
I like the way you check everything!

okay i want to accept this fact that there is no "bombay"

let's check that there is bombay but there is no one who is bombay, are you agree?
What label Bombay points to? - Check ?
- Experience of a body, movements, writing, speaking, experience of a thoughts, story...this is Bombay. But is there inside someone who is this that label bombay points to?
Responsibility is happening but is there someone who is responsible? Doing is happening but is there a doer?
Bombay is happening but is there someone who makes effort to be Bombay?

and i think by accepting this fact, it should change my perspective on life, or should have some form of impact.

Yes, but not only accepting but seeing how things really are.

but before that, I need to get my basics cleared up i believe.

let's say that there is a believe but not center I who believes. Check what the word believe points to - Thought/idea that something is like this "There is an I who is Bombay" and now we are checking is describe reality or this is another one concept/story like Santa.
Notice without believing any voice of shame, guilt - There is simple life that is going on and there is just joy of this, nothing more?

But even if "self" is a concept, what is wrong in me being bombay? what is the harm in recognizing my self as someone?

Wonderful question.
Notice whats bring you here in the forum?
What is not OK?
What are you looking for precisely?

Love
Lubo

[bombay17]

hello lubo,

- Experience of a body, movements, writing, speaking, experience of a thoughts, story...this is Bombay. But is there inside someone who is this that label bombay points to?

this clears a lot of things for me, i am grateful _/\_
all these thoughts, experiences and stories are indeed labelled as "bombays" but there is no inherent creator of these thoughts experience and stories. if i were to disengage myself with voice of guilt, it would then have no power over me (which it currently has),

Bombay is happening but is there someone who makes effort to be Bombay?

wow, thinking about it, the stories and experiences are being created and that too,... automatically?? life happens, one does not make it happen.

in the last few days i noticed something, daily life is just a bunch of choices, the maximum of them are simple yes and no's and rest involve procrastination, and in majority of the cases I was making a subconscious decisions, but where were the answers coming from? like taking a sip from water bottle at random, i did not consciously think of drinking water, or did not put any effort in deciding whether i should drink or not, i just did. its just like those kangaroos jumping, they just do it.

Notice whats bring you here in the forum?
What is not OK?
What are you looking for precisely?

instead of pre assumptions, we should just let things happen, or to frame it in a better way, the voice in my mind called bombay assumes to much, and restricts me from gaining new experiences, by constantly berating if stepping out of the comfort zone, that is not OK, i am limiting myself if i give my thoughts the control of me, and that anxiety while trying something new, meeting someone new its all just my thoughts thinking how can this event go wrong, all made up, if i start focusing less on them it would help me alot.
thank you:)

[Lubo]

Hi Bombay,
Wonderful observation

this clears a lot of things for me, i am grateful _/\_
all these thoughts, experiences and stories are indeed labelled as "bombays" but there is no inherent creator of these thoughts experience and stories. if i were to disengage myself with voice of guilt, it would then have no power over me (which it currently has),

Yes :) Bombay is just a label, YES there is no inherent creator just a dreaming's thoughts - excellent!
Voice of guilt - YES - this is the main part of illusion. Thoughts are dreaming that there is a person and voice of guilt is coming and start judging this imaginary person.

wow, thinking about it, the stories and experiences are being created and that too,... automatically?? life happens, one does not make it happen.

yes, there is an experience called life and yes there is no one make it,
there is no one which is autonomous and independent :)

instead of pre assumptions, we should just let things happen, or to frame it in a better way, the voice in my mind called bombay assumes to much, and restricts me from gaining new experiences, by constantly berating if stepping out of the comfort zone, that is not OK, i am limiting myself if i give my thoughts the control of me, and that anxiety while trying something new, meeting someone new its all just my thoughts thinking how can this event go wrong, all made up, if i start focusing less on them it would help me a lot.
thank you:)

Yes the voice of guilt and shame judge all experiences, this voice is imagination that there is someone who is in control, that there is someone who is listening this voice :)

Here are the questions where to look:
Notice is there such center called person to whom voice of guilt speaking to?

Without the story that there is a person - does a voice has power? Power over what?

Is there inherent self who is Bombay? Is there a Bombay at all?

Love
Lubo
PS This weekend me and Luchana are having a small event Saturday and Sunday 3 pm-7pm EEST Sofia, Bulgaria time zone, if you want to join ask me for details.

[bombay17]

hello lubo,

Notice is there such center called person to whom voice of guilt speaking to?

it talks to itself? after all the pointless rants and berating me, it replies to itself, the same voice who constantly judges me, also consoles me after being scolded by itself, wow thats like some typical toxic relation.

Without the story that there is a person - does a voice has power? Power over what?

if there is no person who will take those insults, it would be just shouting. If there is no audience who can it convince? suppose i become its audience, then over the time listening the judgement and all the negativity which it spews out, would make me believe its content and hamper my growth or limit my capabilities. On the contrary if there is no audience, how could it possibly affect who i am as a person, therefore if there is no self then there is no audience for the voice of guilt to talk to, and hopefully it would stop the judgement eventually after realizing there is no point in talking to a brick wall :)

Is there inherent self who is Bombay? Is there a Bombay at all?

i want to say no, but i am not very confident as of now to write that as an answer, but can i get to know your answer to this question?
thank you so much.

[Lubo]

Hi Bombay,

it talks to itself? after all the pointless rants and berating me, it replies to itself, the same voice who constantly judges me, also consoles me after being scolded by itself, wow thats like some typical toxic relation.

LoL Yes :)
Can you notice that this voice and imagination that there is an you who lives life are one and the same?
Yes voice is talks to itself.
You are absolutely free from this voice +emotions+me=ball
What is coming when you reflect on this?

if there is no person who will take those insults, it would be just shouting. If there is no audience who can it convince? suppose i become its audience, then over the time listening the judgement and all the negativity which it spews out, would make me believe its content and hamper my growth or limit my capabilities. On the contrary if there is no audience, how could it possibly affect who i am as a person, therefore if there is no self then there is no audience for the voice of guilt to talk to, and hopefully it would stop the judgement eventually after realizing there is no point in talking to a brick wall :)

Wow, yes, just stop pay to this voice-emotional ball and enjoy life , it is so simple, isn't it? :)

Is there inherent self who is Bombay? Is there a Bombay at all?

i want to say no, but i am not very confident as of now to write that as an answer, but can i get to know your answer to this question?
thank you so much.

Mmm, this is your investigation, The answer can be seen only, cannot be explain :) but I can point you how to see the answer.
Now is easy, you are in front of the gate.
Notice without this voice and story about me who is living life, can you point what exactly are you?
What is self/personality without this voice + emotions+story?
Does I/me exist at all? Look :)

Much love
Lubo