EllejBee ad nauseum

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ElleBee
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:45 am

Hi Trisha!
the word ‘know-ing’……

isn’t it more the awar-ing of that what is perceived and SEEN what is actually happening in the here/now?
Yes, I see what you mean. Language is tricky territory here.
'knowing' has something of already over...... it happened already and now it is 'stored' and labelled 'knowing'.

Do you SEE where I am pointing?
Yes, so that changing the language used slightly can focus on a different perspective.
And is 'natural' the sensation of it being ’true’?
Natural is used here as a synonym for true, with natural being the opposite of "forced".
But can thoughts ‘pretend'?
No, but they ARE pretend. Like it's the whole nature of thoughts to weave a story that I believe in, that I buy into and don't question.
You SAW before and shared here, that labelling is happening after the sense experience.

Can a point be found from where LOOKING at and SEEING both the happenings, one after the other, can happen?
I'm not sure. Something is experienced, thought pops in and adds content, "I", or the mind, sees what just happened and says X was experienced and then X was labeled by thought Y. Thought commenting on thought.
How does it ‘FEEL’ that no ‘I’ can be found?
Kind of a relief. It's such a burden. So now when I am feeling stressed, the challenge is to take the time to contemplate this truth. It is a challenge!
Is there space or necessity for both? 'I' and sensation-ing?
No. "I" is all thoughts, thought-based, forced. The sensation-ing goes merrily along its way without any connection to the thoughts.
If 'I' is not found, what could be falsly be taken for an 'I'?
Labeling. Sensation-ing and awar-ing go on, and then thoughts come in with labels. THAT is ME experiencing this. I AM THE ONE who is experienc-ing.
Is it possible that what is called ‘I’ is just this, the sensation-ing and awar-ing thereof?
Hmm, yes, a thought attributing the sensation-ing and awar-ing to the "I".

As I was reading this and contemplating, I stopped, took a sip of coffee (taste), felt the warmth of the cup (sensation), smelled the coffee (smelling), looked at the television (seeing), and listened to the birds chirping outside (hearing). All with no effort at all (it just happens) other than actually paying attention to it and not being lost in thought. Truly the sights, sounds, taste, smells, and sensations are happening all the time. The birds don't stop chirping, for example. It's just the "I" is not paying attention, is absorbed in thought that appears to deaden the experiencing.
Is it possible that we mistake sensation-ing as ‘entity’ or ‘I’?
It can't be anything else. Yes, this is definitely so.

Trisha, with your help here it's starting to become apparent "to me" what is actually going on here. What subterfuge! Pay attention to thoughts, ingnore sensation-ing and awar-ing. How to fool yourself!

Thank you!

Lisa

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:51 pm

Hi Lisa,


But can thoughts ‘pretend'?
No, but they ARE pretend. Like it's the whole nature of thoughts to weave a story that I believe in, that I buy into and don't question.

Yes, exactly, that’s the nature of thoughts, thought content is always stories, ideas, habits.

What are stories made of? Look more closely at this question. If someone just met you on the street, could they know any of your story except the part where you were meeting on the street? They could see your body, but not your story.

What 'tools' would you use to convey to them the supposed reality of a self, with a past, a present, and a future?
Is any of this 'real'? Can any of this be actually and directly be experienced?




If you remember what happened when you were five years old, it comes in the form a story, recreated every time, perhaps slightly differently every time, but all just a fiction. Remember a movie you saw recently. There is a story in a movie, with made-up characters, yet the characters appear real. They have their likes, their dislikes, and their ways of dealing with situations. It is the same with the character “you.” It appears to be a real character, but is there anything solid in its story? It’s all made up from thoughts about it.

Can you see this?

LOOK at the story of ‘Lisa’ from the eyes of your best friend, a parent, a colleague, a stranger on the street. Is it the same story? How does it change depending on a point of view? How does it change depending on your mood?

Is there a true story or is it all fiction?

Something is experienced, thought pops in and adds content, "I", or the mind, sees what just happened and says X was experienced and then X was labeled by thought Y. Thought commenting on thought.

Yes, but thoughts popping in is part of what is experienced. That is ok, it will not stop.

And then, right, thoughts ‘commenting’ on thoughts, what means, thoughts about thoughts about thoughts. Notic-ing of more thoughts popping in. A lot of 'commenting 'is happening. And ‘believing' is happening.

And who is identifying with the content of these thoughts? Is there any entity or ‘I’ apart from ’notic-ing and awar-ing what is happening’ that is ‘identifying’?

How does it ‘FEEL’ that no ‘I’ can be found?
Kind of a relief. It's such a burden. So now when I am feeling stressed, the challenge is to take the time to contemplate this truth. It is a challenge!

Very good! Yes, what a relief and freeing from the burden of all these illusions of manag-ing and orchestrat-ing and do-ing life.

It will get easier. The brain will adapt and new neural pathways will get stronger…. ok, also just stories, but for driving home a point :-)

here it's starting to become apparent "to me" what is actually going on here. What subterfuge! Pay attention to thoughts, ingnore sensation-ing and awar-ing. How to fool yourself!
Well said :-)

And ‘you know’ what is true instead and how to find out.

LOOK if anything is true when noticing the old stories.



Lisa, you are doing good :-) It's a joy seeing this happening :-)

Have fun again and relax!!

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:55 pm

Hi LIsa,

I am sharing this in case it resonates with you: viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8702


Timing East Coast will be again 3 pm Sunday afternoon.

Vince is a great guide.
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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ElleBee
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:26 am

Hi Trisha! Thanks for the link to the meetup. Can you tell me what they are like, and what the expectations are of participants?

And on to the exercises:
What are stories made of? Look more closely at this question. If someone just met you on the street, could they know any of your story except the part where you were meeting on the street? They could see your body, but not your story.

What 'tools' would you use to convey to them the supposed reality of a self, with a past, a present, and a future?
Is any of this 'real'? Can any of this be actually and directly be experienced?
It's all fiction. If someone asks a question about my life (like where I am working and if I like my job, for example), there is a momentary pause as I retrieve that "movie" and press "Play". By appearances, it's all rehearsed in the head, ready for presentation. Clearly a fiction, just like a movie. What is actually happening is a thought about "my story", which is all thought. The thought triggers the other thought, which is the story itself.
If you remember what happened when you were five years old, it comes in the form a story, recreated every time, perhaps slightly differently every time, but all just a fiction. Remember a movie you saw recently. There is a story in a movie, with made-up characters, yet the characters appear real. They have their likes, their dislikes, and their ways of dealing with situations. It is the same with the character “you.” It appears to be a real character, but is there anything solid in its story? It’s all made up from thoughts about it.

Can you see this?
This is funny because I did not read ahead, and you are confirming my understanding.
LOOK at the story of ‘Lisa’ from the eyes of your best friend, a parent, a colleague, a stranger on the street. Is it the same story? How does it change depending on a point of view? How does it change depending on your mood?

Is there a true story or is it all fiction?
The story is altered slightly (or maybe majorly) based on many factors (like you said, who is it for, what my mood is, maybe how much time I have to describe, if I think I can be completely honest or if I need to conceal certain parts, etc.).
Yes, but thoughts popping in is part of what is experienced. That is ok, it will not stop.

And then, right, thoughts ‘commenting’ on thoughts, what means, thoughts about thoughts about thoughts. Notic-ing of more thoughts popping in. A lot of 'commenting 'is happening. And ‘believing' is happening.
This seems like the key point. This is what can be separated: The thoughts will continue popping in, but the BELIEVING part doesn't have to continue.
And who is identifying with the content of these thoughts? Is there any entity or ‘I’ apart from ’notic-ing and awar-ing what is happening’ that is ‘identifying’?
A thought is identifying as "self" with these other thoughts. Notic-ing and awar-ing of thoughts coming in is happening, and the thoughts point to more thoughts that lead to the creation of the "I" (fictional). But going backward to the source, there is no "I", it's all the notic-ing and awar-ing only. The "I" is the end point, not the beginning, and is an assumption or belief.
It will get easier. The brain will adapt and new neural pathways will get stronger…. ok, also just stories, but for driving home a point :-)
This is excellent news.
LOOK if anything is true when noticing the old stories.
Yes, the whole story starts to fall apart if I actually LOOK.

I got an image to kind of describe this process. What came to mind was building a garden path, built one brick at a time, at one brick per day. Each exercise is like a brick. It adds to the path, but slowly. But once it's installed, it's in there permanently.
It also becomes apparent that the whole "frustration thing" is the thought that "I" wants the path to be fully constructed in a snap. It doesn't understand the process thing because it is on the opposite side of the coin from awar-ing and experienc-ing (not to make awar-ing and experienc-ing a duality thing, but you know what I mean).

Thanks so much for this!

Lisa

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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:26 am

Hi Trisha! Thanks for the link to the meetup. Can you tell me what they are like, and what the expectations are of participants?

And on to the exercises:
What are stories made of? Look more closely at this question. If someone just met you on the street, could they know any of your story except the part where you were meeting on the street? They could see your body, but not your story.

What 'tools' would you use to convey to them the supposed reality of a self, with a past, a present, and a future?
Is any of this 'real'? Can any of this be actually and directly be experienced?
It's all fiction. If someone asks a question about my life (like where I am working and if I like my job, for example), there is a momentary pause as I retrieve that "movie" and press "Play". By appearances, it's all rehearsed in the head, ready for presentation. Clearly a fiction, just like a movie. What is actually happening is a thought about "my story", which is all thought. The thought triggers the other thought, which is the story itself.
If you remember what happened when you were five years old, it comes in the form a story, recreated every time, perhaps slightly differently every time, but all just a fiction. Remember a movie you saw recently. There is a story in a movie, with made-up characters, yet the characters appear real. They have their likes, their dislikes, and their ways of dealing with situations. It is the same with the character “you.” It appears to be a real character, but is there anything solid in its story? It’s all made up from thoughts about it.

Can you see this?
This is funny because I did not read ahead, and you are confirming my understanding.
LOOK at the story of ‘Lisa’ from the eyes of your best friend, a parent, a colleague, a stranger on the street. Is it the same story? How does it change depending on a point of view? How does it change depending on your mood?

Is there a true story or is it all fiction?
The story is altered slightly (or maybe majorly) based on many factors (like you said, who is it for, what my mood is, maybe how much time I have to describe, if I think I can be completely honest or if I need to conceal certain parts, etc.).
Yes, but thoughts popping in is part of what is experienced. That is ok, it will not stop.

And then, right, thoughts ‘commenting’ on thoughts, what means, thoughts about thoughts about thoughts. Notic-ing of more thoughts popping in. A lot of 'commenting 'is happening. And ‘believing' is happening.
This seems like the key point. This is what can be separated: The thoughts will continue popping in, but the BELIEVING part doesn't have to continue.
And who is identifying with the content of these thoughts? Is there any entity or ‘I’ apart from ’notic-ing and awar-ing what is happening’ that is ‘identifying’?
A thought is identifying as "self" with these other thoughts. Notic-ing and awar-ing of thoughts coming in is happening, and the thoughts point to more thoughts that lead to the creation of the "I" (fictional). But going backward to the source, there is no "I", it's all the notic-ing and awar-ing only. The "I" is the end point, not the beginning, and is an assumption or belief.
It will get easier. The brain will adapt and new neural pathways will get stronger…. ok, also just stories, but for driving home a point :-)
This is excellent news.
LOOK if anything is true when noticing the old stories.
Yes, the whole story starts to fall apart if I actually LOOK.

I got an image to kind of describe this process. What came to mind was building a garden path, built one brick at a time, at one brick per day. Each exercise is like a brick. It adds to the path, but slowly. But once it's installed, it's in there permanently.
It also becomes apparent that the whole "frustration thing" is the thought that "I" wants the path to be fully constructed in a snap. It doesn't understand the process thing because it is on the opposite side of the coin from awar-ing and experienc-ing (not to make awar-ing and experienc-ing a duality thing, but you know what I mean).

Thanks so much for this!

Lisa

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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:28 am

Trisha, sorry if this posted twice. The screen froze up when I hit "Submit" and spun for a long time. I tried again. look like they both made it through!

Lisa

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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:15 pm

Hi Lisa,


The thought triggers the other thought, which is the story itself.
Exactly, this is all.


This seems like the key point. This is what can be separated: The thoughts will continue popping in, but the BELIEVING part doesn't have to continue.
Yes.
Believing in thoughts: it can be noticed and seen more easily. Yes.

But going backward to the source, there is no "I", it's all the notic-ing and awar-ing only.
Yes.


Yes, the whole story starts to fall apart if I actually LOOK.

LOOKING is the only possibility to SEE that there is no separate ‘I’ and that is was never existing, outside of thought-content.



was building a garden path, built one brick at a time, at one brick per day. Each exercise is like a brick. It adds to the path, but slowly. But once it's installed, it's in there permanently.

is the thought that "I" wants the path to be fully constructed in a snap. It doesn't understand the process thing



Lisa, this is all just stories, thought content that is believed. All this is not true.

There is no path, there is no entity that is doing ‘building’ anything, no bricks, nothing is to be installed.
Nothing is lacking, there is absolutely nothing to be constructed.
There is no process. At all.


Lisa, everything IS already, life is, presence IS, aliveness, the sense of aliveness IS,
Being is, alertness, perceiving, amness, that what IS.


That is all. There is just nothing more.

There is no ’self’ or ‘I’ anywhere in all this BEING, in all this presence. There is only Being-ness and presence.

Lisa, ‘you’ does not exist and did never exist, no builder, no manager, no owner.

There is awar-ing of a stream of perceiving through the senses, thoughts arising.
And all this happens by itself.

Nothing more. And no 'Lisa'.


Lisa, you are very good at thinking and overthinking. At believing thought content.


Sit with what I wrote and let it sink in.

Write back only tomorrow.

Do you see where the pointing goes?

How does it FEEL to let it all in what I wrote?



It is helpful to do the pointer of LOOKING at labelling the ‘I’ and how it feels when only the happening is LOOKED at:


Not: I walk, but walking (is happening)
Not: I drive the car, but driving (is happening)

If you have a chance, go out into nature and look at everything, look how all is already, nothing is lacking, everything just IS, Lif-ing, BE-ING, totally effortlessly. Nature, animals, trees, sky, clouds, is there any manager doing or deciding any of these movements of life?


Sending love

Trisha


PS: Vince is one of our best guides, he is relaxed very good at pointing to thoughts and believes and to what is true. I really recommend him, if it feels ok for you to participate.

The other participants are clients that just saw that there is no ‘gate’, that SAW through the illusion that there is no ‘I’ and clients like you :-) that somehow sense the truth but haven’t SEEN it yet…..
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:17 am

Hi Trisha,

I am going to spend some more time with this this weekend. Today was a washout --- mind coming back with a vengeance, thoughts, thoughts, thoughts. Like somebody turned the volume on them way up, drowning out the possibility of looking. I don't know why it's this way, but I will have maybe a couple "good days" and then invariably the bad one (or more). I just don't want you to think I'm blowing this off, sometimes I have to give it an extra day or two.

Thank you for your understanding!

Lisa

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:36 pm

Hi Lisa,

I just don't want you to think I'm blowing this off,
No, I know, you are not :-)

mind coming back with a vengeance, thoughts, thoughts, thoughts.

somebody turned the volume on them way up,


Please LOOK, what can be experienced directly, actually:


Lisa, are ‘you’ doing any of this? LOOK, no thinking.


Is there a ‘Lisa’ that is making the thoughts or managing them?

Is any entity be found that is ’turning on the volume’?

What is the actual experience of 'turning volume on them up'? Is there any? Or are there only more thoughts about a thought-image?

Do thoughts have volumes? LOOK.



drowning out the possibility of looking
What is the direct experience of this? Is there any? Is it true?
Then please descibe how it is sensed: drowning out the possibility of looking.



Yes, take the time you need.

You know how to get in contact with experiencing: LOOK at the here/now: what can you SEE, taste, smell, sense or hear?

I am not interested in what thoughts are saying about any given situation, I want to hear what is the direct experience of this situation.

Can you see the difference?


Enjoy and RELAX.

Seeing will happen, you can not make it!


Have a good week end

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:22 pm

Hi Trisha,

I'll try to describe what's going on. It's clearly related to NOT SEEING.
Lisa, are ‘you’ doing any of this? LOOK, no thinking.
No, when I look, there is no I there. I do this periodically and confirm it over and over again.
Is there a ‘Lisa’ that is making the thoughts or managing them?
No. "I" would not choose to do this. They just come. They're just there.
Is any entity be found that is ’turning on the volume’?
No.
What is the actual experience of 'turning volume on them up'? Is there any? Or are there only more thoughts about a thought-image?
Thoughts that lead one to another without a break that allows space to look. There may be an intention to look, observe, and then it seems that the constant stream of thoughts divert attention to the looking instead into whatever that thought is about. Probably similar to having the intent to meditate and then being unable to quiet the mind in order to do so. But that is just a thought also.
Do thoughts have volumes? LOOK.
No, that was a poor word choice. It was more the constant appearance of the thoughts that produced another thought about a chaotic mind.
drowning out the possibility of looking
What is the direct experience of this? Is there any? Is it true?
It was a thought.
Then please descibe how it is sensed: drowning out the possibility of looking.
A feeling of tightness or compression in the abdomen I think.
I am not interested in what thoughts are saying about any given situation, I want to hear what is the direct experience of this situation.

Can you see the difference?
Yes, you are interested in the seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and feeling experienced, not in the thoughts.

And it was thoughts about the thoughts + the tightness/constriction of the stomach that got labeled something like frustration.

Also, thank you for this reminder:
Seeing will happen, you can not make it!
This helps a lot, even though it is very evident (if I LOOK) that it is true.

Lisa

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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:51 pm

Hi LIsa,
No, when I look, there is no I there. I do this periodically and confirm it over and over again.

Is there anyone who is doing the looking?

When no ‘I’ is seen when looking, who or what is confirming that there is no ‘I’?

Please LOOK, don’t go to thinking about this.



Thoughts that lead one to another without a break that allows space to look. There may be an intention to look, observe, and then it seems that the constant stream of thoughts divert attention to the looking instead into whatever that thought is about.

This is a good working description of the realm of thoughts and how they work.
We are not interested in this at all.

We are using only Direct, RAW experiencing, the 5 senses, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, sensing/touching, and the noticing of thoughts arising.
All questions, exercises and pointers are addressing only to the ream of direct experiences.


Yes, you are interested in the seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and feeling experienced, not in the thoughts.
No, it’s not at all about me.
It’s about ‘Lisa’. She is here to SEE through the lie of an independent ‘I’ or ’self’.
She can SEE only by using her 5 senses.
That’s it.
There is nothing else.
Nothing.


Then please descibe how it is sensed: drowning out the possibility of looking.
A feeling of tightness or compression in the abdomen I think.

Who/what feels tightness or compression in the abdomen?

Who/what is thinking?

Can any contact between ’thinking’ and ‘feeling’ tightness/compression be Noticed/SEEN? LOOK carefully here.


And it was thoughts about the thoughts + the tightness/constriction of the stomach that got labeled something like frustration.

Lisa, what does tightness/constriction of the stomach really point to?

Is it frustration?

Is frustration something that can be sensed? Or is it a label of a more basic body sensation that points to something else?

Please do a very deep LOOKING here to SEE what is going on.


There may be an intention to look
similar to having the intent to meditate
Intention?


Who/what is having or doing intention?
What is the direct experience of 'intention'?



having the intent to meditate and then being unable to quiet the mind in order to do so.

What is the actual experience of this?

Is this a real raw direct experience? Ho does havening intent to meditate FEEL? How does being unable to quiet the mind FEEL? Please describe the raw experiences of these.

Or is this all only thinking?




LOOK carefully again.


Yes, these are 'intense' moments.....

Good, that giving up is not an option :-)


You are doing well, Lisa, though it is 'hard' sometimes.

No choice.

Love to you

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:43 am

Hi Trisha!

This took me a little while, time to cool down and look again.
Is there anyone who is doing the looking?
No, unless you count "awareness", which all it seems to do is look.
When no ‘I’ is seen when looking, who or what is confirming that there is no ‘I’?
I don't know. There is a "looking", then there is a realization/confirmation that everything is thought, then there is a thought that there is no "I". There is no "who" thinking the thought that there is no "I".
Who/what feels tightness or compression in the abdomen?
There is no "who" thinking the thought that feels tightness or compression. The feeling is there but there is no "who".
Who/what is thinking?

No "who". The "who" who thinks it's thinking is a thought.
Can any contact between ’thinking’ and ‘feeling’ tightness/compression be Noticed/SEEN? LOOK carefully here.
No. The feeling exists, or happens. Then the thinking part comes in.
Lisa, what does tightness/constriction of the stomach really point to?
Nothing that isn't a label. It just is, before the label gets applied to it.
Is it frustration?
Not really.
Is frustration something that can be sensed? Or is it a label of a more basic body sensation that points to something else?
It's more of a constriction. Frustration is a thought. The constriction is real/experienced.
Who/what is having or doing intention?
What is the direct experience of 'intention'?
There isn't direct experience of intention. It's backwards application of a thought (as are ALL thoughts!). Used to try to explain something experienced, when it has no connection, it's a story.
having the intent to meditate and then being unable to quiet the mind in order to do so.
What is the actual experience of this?
The thought "I want to meditate". Sitting quietly. Then more thoughts saying "I can't meditate".
Is this a real raw direct experience? Ho does havening intent to meditate FEEL? How does being unable to quiet the mind FEEL? Please describe the raw experiences of these.
Not a raw experience. The intent to meditate doesn't feel like anything.

Being unable to quiet the mind: Thoughts observed (I want to meditate, I need to quiet my mind, why can't I quiet the mind), constriction in the body (stomach area, chest area). A big whoosh of energy (don't know what else to call it) rushing upward that gets labeled anger or frustration.
Or is this all only thinking?
Most of it is, but there is the energy moving, rising extremely quickly that gets labeled anger or frustration.

Does that make sense? It's hard to tease these things apart. There is definitely a big movement of energy that sets off and then thought comes in and says that is frustration or anger. But all the rest is thoughts bouncing off each other.

Thank you again Trisha for your patience!

Lisa

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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:24 pm

Hi Lisa,
Is there anyone who is doing the looking?
No, unless you count "awareness", which all it seems to do is look.

Can awareness do anything? Does awareness do the looking?

Can awareness exist separated from one of the 5 senses or thoughts arising?

Is awareness more than perceiving what is going on, what is happening?




Lisa,

Please LOOK into the 2 totally different and not connected realms of experiencing and LOOKING, which is a looking and seeing of what is happening in an impersonal way or nature, seeing only what really arises.

And then how the « thoughts about » come in and how they add and ‘make totally up’ a new or thought up aspect of what was just before experienced.

And how you tend to identify most strongly with these ‘my very real thoughts’.


Please read this above several times and let it sink in.


OK, let’s look at intention, is there really something like intention at all?


Drink Exercise

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice or intention or decision can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice/intention/decision

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.
2. Count to 5.

3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:


Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’, having an intention, doing the deciding.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?


In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?



Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’.

But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’? Can any entity be found that is doing and choosing?







Lisa, relax relax relax,

there is nothing that can be done.

There is no 'I' right now and never was. It is about SEEING this. And this SEEING can happen with any question, any exercise or any pointer. It is a happening, not a doing.


Relax, be curious and have some fun


Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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ElleBee
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu May 12, 2022 8:14 pm

Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:24 am

Hi Trisha,
Can awareness do anything? Does awareness do the looking?
Awareness is really a label. It doesn't stand on its own as a "thing", it's just happening all the time.
Can awareness exist separated from one of the 5 senses or thoughts arising?
No, that covers it all (5 senses + thoughts).
Is awareness more than perceiving what is going on, what is happening?
No, the only thing else is thoughts.

Drinking Exercise:
In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?
The qualities just appeared. Then thoughts came in afterward. I had a cup of coffee and one of water. Qualities that presented for the coffee were good tasting, warmth. The water was cool, and immediately another thought came in that "I felt dehydrated from drinking coffee, the water would be good to drink".
In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?
No, there was no mental function that did anything. But the thing got done anyways. The preferences arose as thoughts, and then the counting also came in as thought.
In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?
It's getting more obvious that there wasn't anyone doing any choosing (although thoughts are eager to come in after the fact and claim they did). There was a hovering in front of two cups, and then movement toward one of them. And then there was the "I'll take a sip of water" thought that comes in right after that.

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’.

But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’? Can any entity be found that is doing and choosing?
A feeling can't choose. There's definitely no entity doing anything. It's the same with looking for "I", the same result. Nothing to be found.



Thank you Trisha! This had to "cook" for a couple days.

Lisa

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TeeKa112
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat May 22, 2021 7:10 am

Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:00 pm

Hi Lisa,


yes, very good investigations here, into awareness and into choosing or deciding:

No, there was no mental function that did anything.

But the thing got done anyways.

Isn’t it amazing to finally see this?



It's getting more obvious that there wasn't anyone doing any choosing

(although thoughts are eager to come in after the fact and claim they did)

Getting more obvious?
So what is missing to SEE totally the truth of nobody and nothing is doing any choosing?

Do you notice thoughts saying otherwise?

Can thoughts do anything?

Can thoughts do choosing or deciding?


Please Look carefully and share what is SEEN.


A feeling can't choose. There's definitely no entity doing anything. It's the same with looking for "I", the same result. Nothing to be found.
Is it really SEEN that no entity is doing anything?
Or is it a logical conclusion, what the word ‘definitely' might be suggesting?

Is it clearly SEEN that nobody is doing, choosing or deciding anything?

How does it FEEL when you say that nothing to be found?
Please share what are the sensations in your body.



Please do this pointer:
Take some time to Look into everything, don’t let thoughts assume they ‘know’:


In looking, is there a looker? In choosing, is there a chooser? In witnessing, is there a witness? In thinking, is there a thinker? In writing, is there a writer? In perceiving, is there a perceiver? In experiencing, is there an experiencer?

Is someone having the experience? Or is only experiencing happening?

Is life happening to someone or something, or is the experiencer merely a thought that happens within and as experience?


What is found?


You are doing good.

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti


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