EllejBee ad nauseum

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ElleBee
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:46 pm

Hi Trisha!

To clarify this part:
Can it be known how many toes are there?
When I ask these questions in this state, the state is no longer there. It becomes labels again.
I meant that thoughts were getting intrusive. Questions opened the door to more questions, and I "lost the plot" there.
By "state" I meant the state of experiencing pure sensation. The thoughts got intrusive and the pure experiencing stopped and labeling began.

But the answer is no, it cannot be known how many toes there are.

And reading your text further down:
The only ‘evidence’ we will ever have is the sensations in our body that point to a lie or something true.
Just a comment: This is indicating that feelings such as heaviness, tightness, are untruth indicators. Feelings of lightness, expansion are truth indicators. And there is nothing else to go on because thoughts are untruths themselves.
If this is a correct expression of truth and falsity, then that would be very valuable to know.
I work, I drive the car, I cook, I choose what I have for lunch, I decide what I drink and when I drink, I decide what cloths I choose in the morning, I chose my favourite colour, I decide to get angry at other car drivers,

How does it feel in your body the attribution of ‘I’ or 'me' or 'mine’?
Pressure in the chest area.
Can you find a chooser or decider when it comes to what cloths you wear every morning? Who is doing the deciding?
No, it happens and then the thought occurs right after that "I" chose them.
Or is it just happening?
Just happening.
Can you find a chooser who once chose your favourite colour?
That's a good reference, since favorite colors are usually chosen in childhood. It's more obvious that things just happen when you think back to childhood. There didn't need to be a reason, it just was.
Can you find an entity in Lisa that did the deciding who to marry?
No.
Or did all these situations just happen?
Stuff is just happening all the time.
There is no ‘I’. It is a thought, a story, an illusion. Made up and taught to us.

Can you see this?
Actually yes. But not all the time.
Lisa, you are doing good. I sense some 'frustration'....????
During the times when I can't see (thoughts are fighting back quite hard) then I experience frustration because I know as a concept the truth but temporarily can't experience it. Yes, lots of frustration then!
As you said, thoughts do no like what you are doing here :-)
Wow, that has become obvious. I need to walk away, take a break for a while when that happens and let the thought shitstorm subside!
Have fun and relaxation, because SEEING can happen only in relaxation.
This made me laugh, reading this after typing all that above.

Thank you for your patience! And your wonderful guidance!

Lisa

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:32 am

Hi Lisa,
Just a comment: This is indicating that feelings such as heaviness, tightness, are untruth indicators. Feelings of lightness, expansion are truth indicators. And there is nothing else to go on because thoughts are untruths themselves.
If this is a correct expression of truth and falsity, then that would be very valuable to know.

Yes!!!! Exactly!!

This is why I brought this up so often :-)

Try it out for yourself with some of your believings, my colleague is XXXXX, my boss is XXXXX, my neighbor is XXXX.

Just a little remark for clarity: heaviness, tightness are sensations, like also lightness and expansion are sensations, not feelings (emotions).

Feelings are sensations we give a label to: Fear, anxiety, nervousness, concern, hate, love……and the labelling is often arbitrary, depending on the situation what seams most suitable for the situation.


Can you see the difference?


I meant that thoughts were getting intrusive. Questions opened the door to more questions, and I "lost the plot" there.

By "state" I meant the state of experiencing pure sensation. The thoughts got intrusive and the pure experiencing stopped and labeling began.

Yes, that is to be expected, that is what thoughts do.
No problem, take some deep breaths, or get up and move around, and then get back, some deep breaths and let your awar-ing return to the body sensations.
Wow, that has become obvious. I need to walk away, take a break for a while when that happens and let the thought shitstorm subside!
Perfect!

Sensing body sensations is not your ‘forte’, so thoughts can take over more easily.
For others it happens when they are looking at something or listening…. same situation.

And watch thoughts happening with a story of ’not good enough, failure’.

When you notice these: go and check the body sensations connected to these failure-thoughts.

Do they point to truth? Or can you detect that these thoughts are lies?

How does it feel in your body the attribution of ‘I’ or 'me' or 'mine’?
Pressure in the chest area.

Yes, because ‘I’ or ‘mine’ are lies.

Can you see this now?


No, it happens and then the thought occurs right after that "I" chose them.
Great! Yes, and good that you can SEE that the thoughts jump in right after deciding had happened.

Actually, you can google this, there are many scientific studies about ‘who is taking the decision?’

There is an area in our brains where there are activities, that can be seen, seconds before the person really ‘does’ the action.

Have fun and relaxation, because SEEING can happen only in relaxation.
This made me laugh, reading this after typing all that above.


Thank you for this clarification! I take notice of it:


So here we go, the exercise for today.

Have fun, be very curious and open to all kind of results :-)
And yes, be relaxed :-)



Body Exercise

Sit or lie down with eyes closed for about 20 minutes or so….


Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images, let them settle down.

Bring awar-ing to the body areas, where there are contact points between body and cloths and body and chair or mattress.

Go to sensations only, don’t rely on visually imaging the body.


Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?


If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?


If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?



What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?




Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.



Have fun and looking forward to your findings

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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ElleBee
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:15 pm

Hi Trisha!
Just a little remark for clarity: heaviness, tightness are sensations, like also lightness and expansion are sensations, not feelings (emotions).

Feelings are sensations we give a label to: Fear, anxiety, nervousness, concern, hate, love……and the labelling is often arbitrary, depending on the situation what seams most suitable for the situation.


Can you see the difference?
Thank you, yes, I see the difference. I did not before.
When you notice these: go and check the body sensations connected to these failure-thoughts.

Do they point to truth? Or can you detect that these thoughts are lies?
They are lies. Concentration on these failure-thoughts sensations detects tightness in the chest and abdominal region. And focus on it tends to have it dissipate quickly after it receives focus.
Yes, because ‘I’ or ‘mine’ are lies.

Can you see this now?
Yes, this is way more subtle than expected, very easy to overlook. But it is there.

For the exercise:
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
There is sensation of clothing touching the body, but no line of demarcation. Very hard to describe, but awareness of includes the clothing where it touches because it's only awareness. To know that it's there means it must be part of the awareness. To use an analogy, it's as if the clothing where it touches is part of the skin.
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
Same phenomenon. There's awareness of touching, of pressure. There's sensation of the texture of the surface (hard, soft, cloth, metal, or wood). Those sensations are part of the experience, not separated.
Is there an inside or an outside?
With my eyes closed, there is just a space of indefinite size. It appears to be "inside" but it has no borders and extends on indefinitely, presumably into the outside.
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
It's just a space of awareness. There doesn't appear to be anything to be "in". It seems to reside inside the head, but upon examination it isn't limited to there at all.
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
There isn't any detectable boundary, so there doesn't appear to be any outside at all.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

This big inner/outer space that is aware and detecting sensations constantly.

A fun exercise, thank you!

Lisa

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:17 pm

Hi Lisa,

here we go, with relaxation and curiosity and lightness and good LOOKING:


Yes, this is way more subtle than expected, very easy to overlook. But it is there.
Oh yes, it is easy to be not noticed. But now you experienced it!!

sensation of clothing touching the body

Clothing? Really? what is the sensation of ‘clothing’? Can you describe?

Is clothing different from ‘apple’ or any other label?



but awareness of includes the clothing where it touches because it's only awareness.

Not sure what you are pointing at here?

What is the direct experience you are sharing about?



To know that it's there means it must be part of the awareness.

How do you know? Can anything be ‘known’ without being experienced?

'it must be' is NOT a direct experience. Please LOOK and SENSE for yourself, no mental gymnastics please :-)

To use an analogy
Please, no analogies here….. we are not interested in.

Only plain simple words to describe/rapport the raw experience.


Same phenomenon. There's awareness of touching, of pressure. There's sensation of the texture of the surface (hard, soft, cloth, metal, or wood). Those sensations are part of the experience, not separated.

Yes, same phenomenon but here you rapport what is experienced very differently.


The question is:

Can a boundary between ‘body’ and cloths or chair be felt/sensed?
If yes, how it is felt? If no, how it is felt?



presumably into the outside.


Presumably???

What are your direct/raw and actual experienced. Please describe with simple words.


It seems to reside inside the head, but upon examination it isn't limited to there at all.

It???

What or who seems to reside inside the head and then isn’t limited to there at all?



so there doesn't appear to be any outside at all.

But what exactly is felt???? by the senses???? Can you describe exactly what is experienced?



What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?


This big inner/outer space that is aware and detecting sensations constantly.

What you are saying is, ‘body’ is experienced as a space that experiences sensations?

How many experienes are happening?




Looking forward to your answers

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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ElleBee
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:26 pm

Hi Trisha!

Again, to start right in:
Clothing? Really? what is the sensation of ‘clothing’? Can you describe?

Is clothing different from ‘apple’ or any other label?
Clothing is a label. A sensation of touch in this case becomes the label of clothing.
but awareness of includes the clothing where it touches because it's only awareness.

Not sure what you are pointing at here?

What is the direct experience you are sharing about?
A gentle pressure, a heavier pressure. "Lighter" without it, "heavier" with it.
To know that it's there means it must be part of the awareness.

How do you know? Can anything be ‘known’ without being experienced?
Can a boundary between ‘body’ and cloths or chair be felt/sensed?
If yes, how it is felt? If no, how it is felt?
No, no boundary. Just a feeling of pressure, light or heavy, that gets labeled (like comfortable versus uncomfortable).
It seems to reside inside the head, but upon examination it isn't limited to there at all.

It???

What or who seems to reside inside the head and then isn’t limited to there at all?
I don't find a head there. But something is there. I don't have a name for it. If I press my finger to my lip, there is some pressure felt there. If I place the left hand on the right forearm, there is pressure there. I don't know what it is.
so there doesn't appear to be any outside at all.

But what exactly is felt???? by the senses???? Can you describe exactly what is experienced?
Pressure. I don't know what else to call it.
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?


This big inner/outer space that is aware and detecting sensations constantly.

What you are saying is, ‘body’ is experienced as a space that experiences sensations?
I don't really know what it is experienced as. "Space" is just a word. Hmmm. The body may be a mislabeling of experiencing.
How many experienes are happening?
Lots. Breathing is happening. Typing is happening. Hearing is happening. Touch is happening (sitting on a chair, feet on the floor, fingers touching the keyboard). Seeing is happening.

Well, this is a lot of stuff. I'm going to send, even though I could sit here and think about this for a long time...

Thanks!

Lisa

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:48 pm

Hi Lisa,


A sensation of touch in this case becomes the label of clothing.

NO.
A direct experience can never become a label.

The realm of the 5 senses and the realm of fantasy/thoughts/labels do never meet.

Direct experience is just this, a sense of ‘touch’.

Everything else are just invented labels: clothing, chair, butt, boundary

Do this exercise, several times a day, for 15 minutes or so, we call it 'Butt-Chair':

What is the direct/raw/actual experience of your butt on a chair, Lisa?

Take some time to investigate. What is sensed? What is real?

And what is only imagined?




I don't find a head there.

Right, no ‘head’ can be found by the senses. Head is a label.

But something is there. I don't have a name for it.

Yes, something is. It can be called just this: IS.
That what IS.
Presence.

Some call it God.

It is ok to not call it anything.

It can be sensed…… something IS.
Even when you are in a totally dark room without any sounds. There is still sensing of heart beat, of blood, of ‘lif-ing’. It is sensed that lif-ing IS.
That what IS, sky, trees, wind, rain, waves, All IS just happening. That what always just IS.


Can you describe exactly what is experienced?
Pressure. I don't know what else to call it.

This is perfect. Nothing else.

There is an experience of ‘pressure’ or ’touch’. That’s it.

Why should it be called anything else than what it is?

Lisa, trust-ing in what is found, surrender-ing in what is found.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?


I don't really know what it is experienced as. "Space" is just a word. Hmmm. The body may be a mislabeling of experiencing.

Yes, space is just a label. We are not interested.

And ‘body’ is also just a label.

But what IS experienced? Something IS experienced.

What is it?

even though I could sit here and think about this for a long time...
Haha, I am happy that you sent before ’thinking’ about it more….. thinking is not going to help…….. thinking is always in lala-land.

I am interested in your actual experiences.


Lisa, you are doing good. Just that you are not trusting yourself in staying with just what is found.


Those of us who live in a mental world have much the hardest time letting go of the idea that there is something more to be understood. There isn't. You understand it all; now you just need to shift focus from thinking to directly experiencing.



Looking forward to your answers

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:55 pm

Hi again Trisha!

This one was kind of fun:
Do this exercise, several times a day, for 15 minutes or so, we call it 'Butt-Chair':

What is the direct/raw/actual experience of your butt on a chair, Lisa?
The direct, actual experience is again, Pressure.
Take some time to investigate. What is sensed? What is real?
Just pressure. There isn't anything else there. Nothing else to detect.
And what is only imagined?
Well, I easily imagined being the cushion pressing upward against the butt, as well as being the butt pressing downward into the cushion. In my imagination I actually took both sides, one at a time. But those were definitely mental images that my brain concocted.
The direct, actual experience is again, Pressure. And this pressure has no direction, neither up, down, nor sideways.

That's it. There's nothing else to tell. Anything else I try to report is going to reside on the imagination side of things.

Thanks!

Lisa

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:49 pm

Hi Lisa,


this is so great to read, you are doing well……..

Your best posting, all answers only coming from DE :-)
That's it. There's nothing else to tell. Anything else I try to report is going to reside on the imagination side of things.
Yes, so good you SEE this :-)



So let me ask you, and again, only refer to Direct, Raw experiencing with the sense of touch/sensation:

Can an inside of this 'bag of skin' be found?

Can an outside of this ‘bag of skin’ be found?


What is the Direct/Raw experience of the label ‘body?


Is there a separate entity labeled ‘I’ or ‘self’ or ‘me’ at all, anywhere, in any way or shape or form?


Having fun is a great help, since SEEING happens when there is relaxation.


Looking forward to your answers

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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ElleBee
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:38 pm

Hi Trisha!
So let me ask you, and again, only refer to Direct, Raw experiencing with the sense of touch/sensation:

Can an inside of this 'bag of skin' be found?
No. None.
Can an outside of this ‘bag of skin’ be found?
No.
What is the Direct/Raw experience of the label ‘body?
Sensations. Hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting, touching. But none of that is external to the body. And it's not internal either.
Is there a separate entity labeled ‘I’ or ‘self’ or ‘me’ at all, anywhere, in any way or shape or form?
The only thing that identifies with "I", "self", or "me" are thoughts. Thoughts burst in and claim identity with those words. But also thoughts are constantly going, they come in, they leave and are replaced with new ones, and if I look at them, those thoughts claiming "I" or "self" or "me" aren't any different than other thoughts. They don't have more significance, they don't stay, and they don't DO anything.
So no, I, self, and me are thoughts. There isn't anything actually there to identify as I, self, or me.


There does seem to be more relaxation than before. :-)

Thank you!

Lisa

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:58 pm

Hi LIsa,


Your answers are good.
You are coming from a very different point that just some days ago.

Can you see this?



There does seem to be more relaxation than before. :-)

OK! Good.


And does ‘relaxation' point to what you are seeing and sensing now is true or a lie?




So let's go on:


Deeper Body Investigation

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen.

Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?


(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?


(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?



(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?


Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?



Bring fun and curiosity
And take your time :-)


Until then

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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ElleBee
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:37 am

Hi Trisha!
You are coming from a very different point that just some days ago.

Can you see this?
Yes, I'm starting to understand what to look for and not get distracted or fooled by thoughts. I think that's what's going on. I still have thoughts of course, but specifically when answering your questions I find I am able to ignore the thoughts and focus on what you ask me to.
And does ‘relaxation' point to what you are seeing and sensing now is true or a lie?
It is true.
(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?
No, none. That mirror stresses the layer of "interpretation" between what the senses pick up and what is arrived at after the application of the labels. The image in the mirror is obviously cut off from actual senses. It's just false.
(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?
No. The sensation of movement (the hand) has nothing to do with the picture/image in the mirror. The only thing that implies that there is is a thought that it is so.
(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?
Only the thoughts suggest it. If I'm honest about it, the sensation of movement of the hand is unconnected from the appearance of the movement. As I was moving the hand and looking directly at it, itching occurred on one of the fingers of the hand, as it was moving and as I was observing it. And I realized that the itching was occurring -- was being experienced, but it was not observable in the image of the hand. I'm not sure how, but somehow that highlighted the difference between actual experience and the labels attached to interpret the experience.
(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?
It's all labeling. The colors and shapes are observed, experienced. Then labels are attached that assign "meaning", create identification (which is false).
(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?
The image contains only colors and shapes. The labels applied such as "me" suggest that the legs exist.
(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?
This is the easiest to see. When not actually looking at the body or any part, it is easier to focus on the sensations that are real and "turn off" the thoughts that do the labeling. The sensations themselves as a group are being labeled as "the body".
(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
There are sensations, pressure and perhaps sounds.
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
"Walking" is the label applied by a thought.

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Sensations can be found, and then thoughts about the sensations come in and label "body".

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
Sensations can be experienced that are then labeled walking. "Walking" is not a real thing.

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?[/quote]
There doesn't appear to be anything except for the sensations. "Room" is a label given to colors, shapes, images.

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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:45 am

Thank you Trisha! Sorry, I hit send a little early. I had part of it saved in a notepad file and didn't realize that it wasn't completely finished.

This exercise was interesting. What I am finding is that if I concentrate on the assignment I can see what is true and what isn't. But when I am not doing the exercises specifically, things tend to be in their "normal" false state.

But additional contemplation of these questions does help.

Thank you!

Lisa

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:52 pm

Hi LIsa,

I'm starting to understand what to look for and not get distracted or fooled by thoughts. I think that's what's going on.

Yes. And I like your investigating and examining of ‘what is going on’. You are doing good.

I still have thoughts of course, but specifically when answering your questions I find I am able to ignore the thoughts and focus on what you ask me to.

Yes, in the beginning this ‘extra energy’ of being asked to LOOK and wanting to do the LOOKING is helpful.

The appearing of thoughts will continue, it is just that you will be less and less fooled by their content. Stories, lies and labelling is Seen more and more easily. (or not….)
that if I concentrate on the assignment I can see what is true and what isn't. But when I am not doing the exercises specifically, things tend to be in their "normal" false state.

There are different possibilities that help to see through beliefs. One of the best and most direct is called ’The Work’ by Byron Katie. You find it easily on the internet.



What can also help to keep the awar-ing of 'thoughts and labels happening’ going, is doing the exercise I mentioned before and we did at an early point:


Label daily activities in the most simple way: image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.


Seeing your neighbour’s new car = simply: image

Hearing your dog barking = simply: sound

that is interesting: how can 'my' be heard?


Smelling coffee = simply: smell

Thinking of being good or bad at doing these ‘homeworks’ = simply: thoughts


And I realized that the itching was occurring -- was being experienced, but it was not observable in the image of the hand.

I'm not sure how, but somehow that highlighted the difference between actual experience and the labels attached to interpret the experience.

Yes, very good noticing.


And can it be seen clearly how the experienc-ing happens and then only the labelling attaches itself at the already finished experience?



Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

The image contains only colors and shapes. The labels applied such as "me" suggest that the legs exist.


That is interesting :-)

OK, there is the image, colours/shapes, which can be seen.


Now, is there a ‘me’ in the legs?


Even when the whole image, what is labelled as 'body of Lisa’ can be seen, can any entity of ‘I’ be seen or otherwise be experienced?


The sensations themselves as a group are being labeled as "the body ».

Sensations can be found, and then thoughts about the sensations come in and label "body".

Yes, you SEE this clearly now, that there are sensations only. ‘Body’ is only a label.


Now LOOK for an ‘I’: Where could it be?

Is ‘I’ as a separate entity doing sensation-ing needed for there being sensations?




Have fun and relax :-)

Looking forward to your findings

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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ElleBee
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu May 12, 2022 8:14 pm

Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:58 pm

Hi Trisha!

I'm appreciative of your positive feedback. Despite my earlier negativity (the old "poor me, I'll never get it"), you are stalwart in your direction of my focus and don't waver a bit!!
And can it be seen clearly how the experienc-ing happens and then only the labelling attaches itself at the already finished experience?
Yes, when I am paying attention, it feels natural to know how things actually work. The experiencing occurs, then the labeling rushes in to "pretend" to be there first, or at least to pretend to be part of the experiencing itself.
Now, is there a ‘me’ in the legs?
No, that is part of the labeling "package" called "The Body" or "My Body". I've looked for an "I" and didn't find it, came to understand that "I" (and this includes the body) is an illusion or belief that developed through the labeling trick. Labels applied in the beginning to simple things, with the complexity growing until the belief and acceptance of "I", "Me", "My" is absolute. It's pretty crazy to realize this.
Even when the whole image, what is labelled as 'body of Lisa’ can be seen, can any entity of ‘I’ be seen or otherwise be experienced?
Nope. It's subtle, but now I know how to look at the truth.
Now LOOK for an ‘I’: Where could it be?

Is ‘I’ as a separate entity doing sensation-ing needed for there being sensations?

No, there is no "I" detected. This sensation-ing seems to happen all by itself, without any "director".

I am going to take your advice and spend some time each day with the "simple" labeling of image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, and thought. I do this occasionally, but am going to increase the frequency. That alone is a good reminder.

Thank you Trisha!

Lisa

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TeeKa112
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat May 22, 2021 7:10 am

Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:31 am

Hi Lisa,


and today again, bring your curiosity, and be-ing open to surprises, relaxation and fun :-)



stalwart in your direction of my focus and don't waver a bit!!

Thank you so much for this accurate labelling :-)
Yes, keeping and giving focus comes kind of 'natural' to ‘me’ …..

Yes, when I am paying attention,

Yes, this is ok, in the beginning extra energy/focus is helpful….

And this is why the ‘Labelling’ exercise is so supportive….

it feels natural to know how things actually work.

Very good.

Just 2 words:

the word ‘know-ing’……

isn’t it more the awar-ing of that what is perceived and SEEN what is actually happening in the here/now?


'knowing' has something of already over...... it happened already and now it is 'stored' and labelled 'knowing'.


Do you SEE where I am pointing?


And is 'natural' the sensation of it being ’true’?




The experiencing occurs, then the labeling rushes in to "pretend" to be there first, or at least to pretend to be part of the experiencing itself.

Interesting:

‘pretending’, well, this is ‘your’ labelling…..

But can thoughts ‘pretend'?


You SAW before and shared here, that labelling is happening after the sense experience.


Can a point be found from where LOOKING at and SEEING both the happenings, one after the other, can happen?


No, that is part of the labeling "package" called "The Body" or "My Body". I've looked for an "I" and didn't find it, came to understand that "I" (and this includes the body) is an illusion or belief that developed through the labeling trick. Labels applied in the beginning to simple things, with the complexity growing until the belief and acceptance of "I", "Me", "My" is absolute.


It's pretty crazy to realize this.

Yes, ‘crazy’ as totally different from what has been educated and told……. to ‘us' and ‘everybody’ else around.

No, there is no "I" detected. This sensation-ing seems to happen all by itself, without any "director ».

How does it ‘FEEL’ that no ‘I’ can be found?



Let's do an investigation here, take lots of time here, don't rush, maybe come back to it again and again:


You noticed:


sensation-ing is happening (all by itself, no director)

there is no 'I' to be found



Can you now please LOOK and examine, like a scientist with a big microscope:


When there is no 'I' found that is 'doing' or directing'', when all is just happening and also sensation-ing is happening:


Is there space or necessity for both? 'I' and sensation-ing?

If 'I' is not found, what could be falsly be taken for an 'I'?

Is it possible that what is called ‘I’ is just this, the sensation-ing and awar-ing thereof?

Is it possible that we mistake sensation-ing as ‘entity’ or ‘I’?




Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti


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