Deja Vu

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ElaBlue
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Deja Vu

Postby ElaBlue » Sun May 29, 2022 5:24 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there is no separate, individual, egoic structure that has reality.

What are you looking for at LU?
A full realization, unwavering clarity of what is already intellectually sensed - that the reality is not how we perceive it. Seeing through the veil of illusion, and the end of seeking.
Clarity about the nature of reality.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Fruitful discussion encompassing all the points mentioned above. Support, clarity and guidance coming from a being that has already realized the nature of existence and is guiding from exactly that "place"

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Have been seeking, inquiring, without a structured practice (other than watching innumerable YouTube videos on the subject) for about 10 years

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

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Anastacia42
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Re: Deja Vu

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:30 pm

Hi,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,
Stacy
“Even those of us who pay only lip service to the truth know what it is, deep down in our hearts. And we all believe in it, and know it when we see it. Even the best rationalization can fool only the surface mind that manufactures it.”

~ Spider Robinson

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Anastacia42
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Re: Deja Vu

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:38 pm

Are you still interested in being guided?

Thanks
Stacy
“Even those of us who pay only lip service to the truth know what it is, deep down in our hearts. And we all believe in it, and know it when we see it. Even the best rationalization can fool only the surface mind that manufactures it.”

~ Spider Robinson

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ElaBlue
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Re: Deja Vu

Postby ElaBlue » Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:52 pm

Hello Stacy,

Finally we connected. I am in US east coast, eastern time. You can call me Ela :)

So let me try answering the questions regarding the exploration:


1.
How will life change?
I do not know how life will change. I can only have projections based on learned responses from what other people reported as experience. However, I also want to say that nothing will change since all of what we seem to experience is rather our imagination.

2.
How will you change?
Wow, this took my breath away a bit. I am trying to see how will "I" change and I am not sure what is "me" as a reference point to measure the change. Kind of funny! Very interesting inner experience of "wait, what is the I?" :)

3.
What will be different?
You know, this kind of wipes the future though. All I can say is that there are only projections of how it could be, perhaps innumerable possibilities but none real.
I am starting to like this :)

4.
What is missing?
There is an idea that there is a liberation, a seeing of truth that has not been gotten, and lived, so consequently there is a struggling seeking for what is not found. There is also the expectation that it can be found, or seen, or understood, or realize, after which this painful seeking/longing will cease.
There is a heightened awareness of many arising thoughts, and that feels exhausting, unpleasant, and dreadful. I would trade "liberation" for a calm mind (which of caurse, that happens too!)
Well, that is partly a joke, lol.

Thank you again for connecting.
Looking forward to hear from you.
~Ela

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Anastacia42
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Re: Deja Vu

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:41 am

Hi Ela

Very good. It was 6 weeks as I recall, before anyone replied to my thread 4 years ago. It's a lighter load right now for the volunteers.

You read the Disclaimer? And What LU is not?

You can post daily?

Your expectations are mostly reasonable. Yes, seeking will stop. But it isn't all a bed of roses. There will be many many thoughts & beliefs to question. No self is only a beginning.

These 2 brief videos talk about that:

This can also come & go as we adjust to what is true. Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Now. What comes up when is read that there is no self, never has been & never will be? That it is all made up stories?

Loving,
Stacy
“Even those of us who pay only lip service to the truth know what it is, deep down in our hearts. And we all believe in it, and know it when we see it. Even the best rationalization can fool only the surface mind that manufactures it.”

~ Spider Robinson

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ElaBlue
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Re: Deja Vu

Postby ElaBlue » Mon Jun 13, 2022 1:26 am

Hi Stacy,

Yes, I have read both of them, and I should be able to post daily.
What comes up when is read that there is no self, never has been & never will be? That it is all made up stories?
There is like a halt, a pause (in the mind?), a space, or silence, or stop of movement (sorry to use all these cliche "spiritual" words but that's a close description). It feels as when you hear something that the mind cannot immediately process and integrate so it's still.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Deja Vu

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:06 am

Okay, good, Ela.

That question checks for fears. So, next...

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)


Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

~ Stacy
“Even those of us who pay only lip service to the truth know what it is, deep down in our hearts. And we all believe in it, and know it when we see it. Even the best rationalization can fool only the surface mind that manufactures it.”

~ Spider Robinson

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ElaBlue
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Re: Deja Vu

Postby ElaBlue » Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:16 am

Yes, I am very clear about this, Stacy, thank you.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Deja Vu

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Jun 13, 2022 11:51 am

Good, Ela . Here is a pointer to practice.


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. This means EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

~ Stacy
“Even those of us who pay only lip service to the truth know what it is, deep down in our hearts. And we all believe in it, and know it when we see it. Even the best rationalization can fool only the surface mind that manufactures it.”

~ Spider Robinson

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ElaBlue
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Joined: Sun May 29, 2022 5:23 am

Re: Deja Vu

Postby ElaBlue » Mon Jun 13, 2022 1:22 pm

Hi Stacy,

I'm afraid I need some clarification on this one.

Basically, the entire experience of the day is made of images/colors, taste, sound, sensation, etc... (which are still names for this experience when broken down)...

1. Do you want me to right it down every time I become aware of it ?

2. Do I wright down: "image/color" or, for example. "computer screen/blue" ? (wow, how meaningless are these words, without our beliefs! we could just interchange them all haha)



Hope that doesn't sound silly but i want to make sure I do this the way you want me to.

Thanks,
~Ela

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ElaBlue
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Re: Deja Vu

Postby ElaBlue » Mon Jun 13, 2022 1:39 pm

Oh My, so I think I got it:

Drinking tea = image, sensation, smell, taste, sound...??

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Anastacia42
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Re: Deja Vu

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:04 am

You've nearly got it.

Do that with each piece of 2 or 3 activities, exactly like the example.


Drinking tea = image, sensation, smell, taste, sound...??

More like this:

Drinking tea -

Holding cup, simply = Sensation
Looking at cup, simply = Image, color
Scent of tea, simply = Smelling
Drinking tea = Tasting
Clink of cup on saucer = Sound or Hearing (either one)

You see? Break it down.

Loving,
Stacy
“Even those of us who pay only lip service to the truth know what it is, deep down in our hearts. And we all believe in it, and know it when we see it. Even the best rationalization can fool only the surface mind that manufactures it.”

~ Spider Robinson

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ElaBlue
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun May 29, 2022 5:23 am

Re: Deja Vu

Postby ElaBlue » Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:16 am

Hi Stacy,
Here we go for today:


Drinking coffee: color, smell, taste, sensations, sound thoughts

Typing: image, sound, sensation, thoughts

Eating soup for lunch: sound, sensations, image/colors, thoughts, sensations, smell, sensations, sensations, thoughts

Working at the computer: image/colors, sensations, thoughts, sounds, thoughts…..images

Taking a walk: sensations, sounds, images, colors

Watching dog: image, color, sensations, sound

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ElaBlue
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Re: Deja Vu

Postby ElaBlue » Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:28 am

What I am also noticing, however, is that the words image, color, taste, smell etc are also labels to the experience.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Deja Vu

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:54 pm

Hi

Can you see how what you wrote just listed a bunch of DE? The example has one or two per line.

Please slow down & follow this example exactly:

More like this:

Drinking tea -

Holding cup, simply = Sensation
Looking at cup, simply = Image, color
Scent of tea, simply = Smelling
Drinking tea = Tasting
Clink of cup on saucer = Sound or Hearing (either one)

You see? Break it down.

The reason for this is to learn to separate the story that thinking tells from Direct Experience. This is essential to SEEING. And this does mean SEEING with your eyes.

So, please break it into smaller pieces, not just a list of all possible DE. Okay?

Much love,
Stacy
“Even those of us who pay only lip service to the truth know what it is, deep down in our hearts. And we all believe in it, and know it when we see it. Even the best rationalization can fool only the surface mind that manufactures it.”

~ Spider Robinson


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