Joyful

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Rpca1974
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Re: Joyful

Postby Rpca1974 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:11 am

Hi Trisha,

Been working on the exercise that you wanted me to do.

When I look at the things in front of me I see how my mind labels and makes up stories about the things that I'm looking at.
When I stop watching what's in front of me as labelled objects and look at the seeing itself, the mind is quiet. I found as I was seeing and my mind would be quiet my mind would try to come in and and start to label and tell stories again.

Is this what you're looking for from this exercise?

Patty

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TeeKa112
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Re: Joyful

Postby TeeKa112 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:22 pm

Dear Patty,

Very good looking, Patty.

and look at the seeing itself, the mind is quiet.

as I was seeing and my mind would be quiet

This is exactly what I wanted you to find out, to SEE, to discover the process of
LOOKING and SEEING. Well done.

When there are no thoughts, seeing is happening and there is noticing of this seeing.

Yes, this is what we want.


I know that you have a busy week end, Thanksgiving. Let's take it easy. No time consuming exercises.

If it is possible can you do this exercise again, as many times as you can to do it during the next days.


Direct Experience

Sit quietly and relax, take your time just looking at what is in front of you for a while.
Observe how the mind is dividing and labelling everything into objects and is embellishing them with stories about what they are.
Give it some time.


Then, stop watching the objects as labelled objects. Just look at the seeing itself. Observe the pure process of seeing.

This is the most important part!


Let me know what is noticed and found.



Happy thanksgiving dear Patty.


Greetings from over here

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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Rpca1974
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Re: Joyful

Postby Rpca1974 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:27 pm

Hi Trisha,

Not sure if you celebrate Thanksgiving or not. If you do Happy Thanksgiving! Thank you for taking the time to work with me. It's definitely been different and eye opening.

I will practice the exercise throughout the weekend.

I will post again on Sun or Mon next week and tell you how I'm doing.

Thank you again Trisha! I appreciate you!

Greetings to you too.

Patty

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TeeKa112
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Re: Joyful

Postby TeeKa112 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:02 pm

Dear Patty,

Thank you for the happy thanksgiving wishes, we don't celebrate it here, but there are many things in live we can be thankful about anyway.

Good to hear that it's different and eye opening, what we are doing here.

It is a very special way to work with somebody and the appreciation is here too.

Until then

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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Rpca1974
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Re: Joyful

Postby Rpca1974 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:41 pm

Hi Trisha,

How are you? I'm doing well. My husband my 2 boys their wives and my 4 grandchildren were all here celebrating together for Thanksgiving. We had a great time being together.

Just wanted to let you know how I'm doing with seeing. It's becoming easier the more I take the time to look what's in front of me. I will keep practicing.

I'm ready to go to the next step with this if your ready for me to.

Patty

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TeeKa112
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Re: Joyful

Postby TeeKa112 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:47 pm

Hi Patty,

good to see you back and that you are ready to go to the next step.

I loved to read that you and your family had a great time. That sounds lovely, the whole family with 4 kids, so 10 all together. It must have been a large turkey....


So, last time we met here, you were looking at random things around you in the room, then watching the mind coming up with thoughts and how the thoughts label everything you see.

And you also noticed how the mind is quiet, when you look at the looking itself.

and look at the seeing itself, the mind is quiet.

as I was seeing and my mind would be quiet

Exactky, that is what this exercise is for, noticing real looking and discovering the process of looking and seeing. And while seeing, the thoughts are not labelling at the same time.


Now I would like to ask you to do the Palm Flipping Pointer again.

You are at another point now, you see seeing......

So I would like to ask you to look first at your hands, in the same way you looked around the room, and then doing the exercise:

While doing it, please only LOOK, like a hawk! You will notice that thoughts want to come, but please try to not go to the thought contents, the labelling or the thought stories, stay with the looking.


Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down. 2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.
Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately. Can you find one?

Who or what​ ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?



Looking forward to your discoveries


Love Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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Rpca1974
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Re: Joyful

Postby Rpca1974 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:55 pm

Hi Trisha,

Trisha, I don't think I understand what you want me to understand with the hand exercise, but I will give you what I feel like it is. I find myself really frustrated about trying to answer the questions for this exercise. I would like more of an explanation of what you want me to understand.
How is the movement controlled?
By feeling
Does a thought control it?
From what I can tell no.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No there's no controller.
How is the decision made to turn the hand over?
Feelings that makes thoughts arise.
Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately. Can you find one?
No I can't find a decision to turn the hand over.
Who or what​ ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
Feelings that make thoughts.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No I can't find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down.

Patty

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TeeKa112
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Re: Joyful

Postby TeeKa112 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:15 pm

Hello dear Patty,


you are doing great, you are seeing a lot.

I find myself really frustrated

Yes, I get this, Patty.

Our old way to think instead of look, the old thinking habit, our believe systems, they don't have anything to do when you use only your 5 senses when doing an exercise. THEY are frustrated.....

I can not change that for you. But, what really really helps, is to use ONLY the 5 senses, for what ever question I give you. I am never never interested in your thoughts.....




And also for this pointer here, there is this misunderstanding.

I asked you to LOOK and watch your hands and tell me what you SEE.

I did not ask you what do you understand.

what you want me to understand
Did I say or write this? Is it instead that you, for old habits, tried to use understanding to get it?
Do you see, that this is not working?
Naturally there is frustration.

So, frustration is actually a good thing.........



I asked you to LOOK, like a hawk or a cat and tell me what you SEE.


And you did SEE a lot:

Does a thought control it?
From what I can tell no.

Exactly, you did not SEE a thought doing control.
Because thought is not controlling.



Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No there's no controller.

Exactly, you did not SEE a controller
Because there is no controller


Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately. Can you find one?
No I can't find a decision to turn the hand over.

Exactly, you did not SEE or find any decision point when a thought made the decision
Because thought is not making the decision.



Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No I can't find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down.
Exactly, you did not SEE or find any separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing.
Because nobody is doing the choosing.



Now, let's look at these 3 answers.

Are they coming out of LOOKIN?
Can you actually SEE a feeling doing choosing or controlling or taking decisions?

How is the movement controlled?
By feeling
Now, Patty, tell me please, can you SEE a feeling controlling the movement?
Can you really notice a feeling doing it?

Can you see anything doing the controlling of the movement?


How is the decision made to turn the hand over?
Feelings that makes thoughts arise.
Can you see, notice, observe how feelings make thoughts?
Can you describe to me how it is done?

Patty, only please LOOK. Can you find anything that tells you how the decision is made? What do you SEE? Do you see something at all?


Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
Feelings that make thoughts.

Again, can feelings produce thoughts? If yes, you must be able to show or explain it to me.

Patty, please again LOOK, like a hawk. Can you see who or what is choosing?



Do feelings have anything to do with what is going on?

Do thoughts have anything to do with what is going on?



Dear Patty, don't let yourself be frustrated. This is the old way of believing, it resists what you are discovering now. The more you see, the easier it gets.....

Looking forward to your findings.

Love

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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Rpca1974
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Re: Joyful

Postby Rpca1974 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:28 am

Hi Trisha,
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No I can't find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down.
Can you really notice a feeling doing it?
Yes,I can notice a feeling doing it.
Can you see anything doing the controlling of the movement?
No, I can't see anything doing the controlling of the movement.
Can you see, notice, observe how feelings make thoughts?
No, I can't see, notice, observe how feelings make thoughts.
Can you describe to me how it is done?
No I can't describe to you how it is done.
Patty, only please LOOK. Can you find anything that tells you how the decision is made? What do you SEE? Do you see something at all?
No I can't find anything that tells me how the decision is made. I only see the hand move.
Again, can feelings produce thoughts? If yes, you must be able to show or explain it to me.
No, feelings don't produce thoughts.
Patty, please again LOOK, like a hawk. Can you see who or what is choosing?
No, I can't see who or what is choosing.
Do feelings have anything to do with what is going on?
No, feelings don't have anything to do with what is going on.
Do thoughts have anything to do with what is going on?
No, thoughts don't have anything to do with what is going on.

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TeeKa112
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Re: Joyful

Postby TeeKa112 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:39 pm

Hello dear Patty,


This is what you saw and found and noticed about choosing, controlling, deciding:


I can't find a separate individual or anything that is choosing

I can't see anything doing the controlling

I can't find anything that tells me how the decision is made

I can't see who or what is choosing.



Exactly, we can not find anything or anybody doing choosing or doing deciding or doing controlling.

We only can see, that it all just happens
I only see the hand move.


Now please can you check more examples for yourself:


Can you find anything or anybody who is choosing what you are wearing today, beside the obvious circumstances like weather, temperature, situations?




Do you have a favourite colour? If so, can you find who or what did the choosing or deciding which colour it would be?
Or did it just happen?




Can you take a little time today and dance? Maybe like 10 minutes?
Please look for:


Can you find anybody or anything that did a decision when to dance? Beside outside circumstances, like being at home?


Can you find anybody or anything that did a choosing if you dance with or without music?

Can you find anybody or anything that did the deciding on what music to take?

Can you find anybody or anything that does choosing of the movements?




Looking forward to your findings.


Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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Rpca1974
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Re: Joyful

Postby Rpca1974 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:14 pm

Hi Trisha,

Can you find anything or anybody who is choosing what you are wearing today, beside the obvious circumstances like weather, temperature, situations?
No, I'm just seeing what I'm wearing.
Do you have a favourite colour? If so, can you find who or what did the choosing or deciding which colour it would be?
Or did it just happen?
Yes, I have a favorite color. No, I can't find who or what did the choosing of the color. Yes it just happened.
Can you find anybody or anything that did a decision when to dance? Beside outside circumstances, like being at home?
No I can't find anybody or anything that made a decision when to dance.
Can you find anybody or anything that did a choosing if you dance with or without music?
Without music I can't find anybody or anything that did a choosing, but I can hear the music because I hear it.
Can you find anybody or anything that did the deciding on what music to take?
No, I can't find anybody or anything that did the deciding o what music to take.
Can you find anybody or anything that does choosing of the movements?
No, I can't find anybody or anything that does choosing of the movements.

Patty

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TeeKa112
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Re: Joyful

Postby TeeKa112 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:27 pm

Hello dear Patty,


Please read the following several times, very carefully and then go to the question. Take much time to do this, don't rush through it. Rather 'drink' it.

I only see the hand move.

I'm just seeing what I'm wearing.

I can't find who or what did the choosing of the color.

I can't find anybody or anything that made a decision when to dance.

I can't find anybody or anything that did the deciding o what music to take.

I can't find anybody or anything that does choosing of the movements.

I can't see anything doing the controlling

I can't find anything that tells me how the decision is made

I can't see who or what is choosing.



I can't find a separate individual or anything that is choosing

It just happened.


These are all your findings. You looked and you saw, you noticed and found out.



How do you feel now, that you saw and discovered a new way to see how things are?

That everything is just happening?

Without something or somebody in us doing or orchestrating anything.

Controlling, deciding, choosing, all is happening.

Everything is just happening.

How do you feel to discover that there is no separate self that is doing choosing or doing deciding or doing controlling, but instead all is happening by itself?


Please share a bit about how you are at this point? How do you feel? What is going on right now, that the old way to believe how things are, is shattered?
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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Rpca1974
Posts: 43
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Re: Joyful

Postby Rpca1974 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:06 am

Hi Trisha,
How do you feel to discover that there is no separate self that is doing choosing or doing deciding or doing controlling, but instead all is happening by itself?
I still have a hard time getting it to sink in.
Please share a bit about how you are at this point? How do you feel? What is going on right now, that the old way to believe how things are, is shattered?
I feel like I want my brain to understand it without trying to figure it out, but my brain still wants to understand it. Does that make sense? The old way is shattered and I don't know how to handle that in my brain. I guess I want a way to not go back to the old way. I feel like I will always still go back to the old way.

Patty

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TeeKa112
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Re: Joyful

Postby TeeKa112 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:57 pm

Hi Patty,


Yes, Patty, it does make sense, what you are sharing. You are describing it very well: confusion.

This is an important step on your way of what we are doing here, discovering that there is no separate self at all and never was.

And at moments it seems to be easy or not so easy.....

Not so easy is when we try to use the thoughts to ....... understand thoughts!


We can not use the same tool that creates confusion to solve it.



I feel like I want my brain to understand it without trying to figure it out, but my brain still wants to understand it. Does that make sense? The old way is shattered and I don't know how to handle that in my brain. I guess I want a way to not go back to the old way. I feel like I will always still go back to the old way.


You are trying hard 'to get', to understand what has been your experience, can you see this?

'Understanding it' is thinking something through.

As if what you saw and experienced was possible to 'get it' by thoughts.
As if thoughts can know any answer.

What you experienced is not a riddle you can solve by thinking or more thinking.

The only solution is leaving thoughts aside.

The only solution is not using thoughts, the solution is in another direction.

Thoughts and experiences are at the very opposites of each other.
Can you see this?


There are (only) two options:
Either I believe (means think about) something in this moment or I experience it.

Please check, if this is true.


Something is either experienced or thought of.

Is there a third option?
What do you find?



I still have a hard time getting it to sink in.

Do you mean to say, that there are thoughts that say, there is a need of an active doing of 'getting it to sink in'?
And you believe these thoughts?


After what you experienced, that there is no controller or decider or chooser, can there be a 'getter', or a 'doer of getting it'?


So, do you have to do something now?
Do you have to think more?

Or do you can relax and look at what you have seen and experienced? And look fresh again and again. You know now how it works: cooking, taking a shower, brushing teeths, putting on shoes, doing your hair..........





Here is a video that talks about this, from somebody who also was guided at LU:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyNwhK2Ur1c




After all this hard work :-)

Can you check here please:



Can you dance, for at least 15 minutes and look at and watch your experiences:

Please tell me: Can you find something or somebody who is doing or deciding or orchestrating the movements?

Do you find a doer of dancing?

Do you find a dancer at all?

Or is dancing just happening?



Relax and also have some fun with it

Love to you

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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Rpca1974
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:27 am

Re: Joyful

Postby Rpca1974 » Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:03 am

Hi Trisha,
You are trying hard 'to get', to understand what has been your experience, can you see this?
Yes, I can see that I'm trying hard to understand what has been my experience.
Thoughts and experiences are at the very opposites of each other.
Can you see this?
Yes, I can see thoughts and experiences are at the very opposite of each other.
Please check, if this is true.
Yes, this is true.
Is there a third option?
No, there isn't a third option.
What do you find?
There's only experiences.
So, do you have to do something now?
No, I don't have to do something.
Do you have to think more?
No, and I don't have to think more.
Or do you can relax and look at what you have seen and experienced? And look fresh again and again. You know now how it works: cooking, taking a shower, brushing teeth, putting on shoes, doing your hair..........
It's just thought going into an experience. Is this what you're looking for me to get?
Please tell me: Can you find something or somebody who is doing or deciding or orchestrating the movements?
No, I can't find something or somebody who is doing or deciding or orchestrating the movements.
Do you find a doer of dancing?
No, there is no doer of dancing.
Do you find a dancer at all?
No, I don't find a doer at all.
Or is dancing just happening?
Dancing is just happening.

Love to you,

Patty


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