Ending the constant searching

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vinceschubert
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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby vinceschubert » Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:06 pm

'evening Diana,
I lost it with husband and had a huge temper tantrum
Ha, i lost it with my wife today. i shouted at her and was full of frustration that she wouldn't listen to me. i got no satisfaction from it. That is i had to accept the what i was saying was something that she wasn't going to accept. i didn't have the recognition that i was lost in story, so no laugh. 15 minutes late we were friends again. No hanging on to it. It (the issue) will probably come up again because it is her nature (habit) to do what i railed about. i imagine that i can accept the inevitability of that and accept it. We'll see next time she does it.
So, I'm telling you this so that you can see that you're never going to be a perfect Buddha. You're human with a lot of conditioned reflexes, but luckily because these are all story productions that can change.
now I have a cold and feeling a bit sorry for myself. What self ?
Don't dismiss the feelings. They were actual. Describing it as "sorry for myself" is a legitimate communication device. We can talk in 'normal' talk and know that we don't mean an actual inherent self the controls the show. Were past the advaita cop stuff now.
Would you say that your feelings also are generally not observed and then when they are, with friendly feelings about the feelings,
No, they are seen. As usual the bigger they are the more noticing happens.
i was meaning that when thoughts are observe there is a friendly feeling towards them.
You are lucky that you don’t generally get caught up in them.
Caught up in thoughts. Oh, i used to. Although it seems like it was another person that it happened to, it was a daily event to get frustrated and angry (like it did today) ..although there wasn't anger today. Just frustration.
But, you say you don’t even notice them, I don’t even understand how this is possible.
It's interesting, but just as i have tinitus that i don't notice unless my attention is triggered, thought just run in the background unless they are useful.
Like typing this, thoughts precede the words that get typed but not as consideration. They just direct the fingers and the words happen. (although sometimes consideration happens when looking for a better way to say something)
Can you please just write a book already
You've got that book already. Could you collate it for me.
is the clouds are not even noticed
The thought clouds aren't, but that's where it becomes a bad analogy, as when i look at actual clouds, i'm thrown into a state of wonder and wow.
I am still so much in the trap of conditioning, t
Then use that. Look, i know that it difficult to accept what isn't pleasant, but THIS IS IT. Whatever you experience is IT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE THAT TO BE AWAKE.
You just have to accept the this IS IT. Then it will change. Stop fighting it. Stop looking to the future for some bliss state.
It's NOW that is actual. (ha, this is what i was shouting at my wife about today. Stop getting lost in what MIGHT happen. It's a waste of ...)

with love

vince

Trinidiana
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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby Trinidiana » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:27 pm

Hi Vince

Thank you for the story of losing it with your wife. And for reminding me that the story productions can change. And that none of us are living buddhas, as my favorite aunt says, I don’t see a halo on you Diana . In other words we are human.
Would you say that your feelings also are generally not observed and then when they are, with friendly feelings about the feelings,
No, they are seen. As usual the bigger they are the more noticing happens.
i was meaning that when thoughts are observe there is a friendly feeling towards them.
Right, I get what you say when you observe thoughts with friendly feelings, these are thoughts that of course you are not 'caught' up with.

It’s the feelings which to me are the stickier things, I would think the bigger they are , the less noticing happens because I’m caught up. And what I am saying happens for me is that my thoughts seem to link immediately to feelings much of the time so I’m caught up in both. And then I notice. Maybe. Sometimes. And I know that’s absolutely fine.

Not sure if this makes sense. I seem to remember that way back, way back, my first guide Zane I think gave up on me because of the feelings issue. He didn’t seem to understand when I expounded on feelings and he got frustrated

A lot of feelings Vince I have. What exactly is the difference between a thought and a feeling; they seem to be inextricably linked, no?

On a side note , I love what you say about actual clouds, me too, they are soooooooooooo beautiful lol I also thought that’s the drawback of using them as an analogy.

i am still so much in the trap of conditioning,

Then use that. Look, i know that it difficult to accept what isn't pleasant, but THIS IS IT. Whatever you experience is IT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE THAT TO BE AWAKE.
You just have to accept the this IS IT. Then it will change. Stop fighting it. Stop looking to the future for some bliss state.
It's NOW that is actual. (ha, this is what i was shouting at my wife about today. Stop getting lost in what MIGHT happen. It's a waste of ...)

Ok, I’m adding this to my 'Vince book' because I know there is so much wisdom here.

Yes, it is difficult to accept what isn’t pleasant, because the feelings that the thoughts bring up are uncomfortable, there I go with feelings again.
Acceptance. Do I accept? Sometimes yes sometimes no. I see it makes no difference to external circumstances but it does change the internal. Acceptance , when I manage it, feels better. And actually sometimes acceptance can change external happenings too.

Does THIS IS IT simply imply living in the instant?
I am not looking for a bliss state but maybe I do have many thoughts of future. I cant really wrap my understanding or grokking around the THIS IS IT.

I find myself indeed getting lost in what might happen,FOR EXAMPLE, politically, to America, to the planet, it almost feels nihilistic not to. I got lost in thoughts trying to comprehend the sheer madness I see around me every day, sometimes from very intelligent people. The misinformation humanity seems to be seeping in. The division. The hatred.

Sigh, At one level I get this though, the more I don’t ruminate and just respond to conditions at hand , the more it seems to all work out and in the moment I know what to say or do or write.

But there is this underlying feeling in my mind of chaos, being pulled in so many directions, fears, worries, just pure scatteredness. Not being satisfied. Seeking. All that stuff

Think that’s it for now.
Xoxox

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vinceschubert
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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby vinceschubert » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:57 pm

Good evening Diana,
In other words we are human.
Yes, and to expect perfection...
observe thoughts with friendly feelings, these are thoughts that of course you are not 'caught' up with.
..and even the ones that i do get caught up in, after it is seen that i was lost in them.
i thought that the laughter was a good way of celebrating the recognition of that, but someone else that i have been 'working' with had another response (spontaneously) which thought might be even better. She said "When thoughts rise up about …why me, no I don’t want this … and future events, watch them then turn to softness and sensing."
i really like this. It has a sense of forgiveness as well as the recognition.
What exactly is the difference between a thought and a feeling; they seem to be inextricably linked, no?
Oh yes. Feelings are always preceded by stories.
The stories might not be played out if they have become automatic. Just the title of that chapter might be sufficient to evoke the whole story. So even if the feelings appear instantly, with a bit of looking you can easily find the story behind it. ..and when you do, watch how the story includes justifications.
So, a great exercise for you would be to take one feeling per day and journal the story behind it. No need for anyone to see it, except yourself. See if a pattern emerges.
Does THIS IS IT simply imply living in the instant?
i don't know what "living in the instant" actually is. I'm human so of course i have thoughts and feelings about the future and the past. ..but they are what life presents. Just as every experience is what life presents. THIS IS IT was the catchphrase that happened for me as the epiphany happened where i realized that seeking was all about the future and the end of seeking could only happen when there was total, unequivocal, willing acceptance of whatever was happening.
It came with the realization that by the time that i realized what was happening, that it was already in the past, so couldn't be changed anyway.
If stories about it arose, then they were just the current experiencing.
I got lost in thoughts trying to comprehend the sheer madness I see around me every day, sometimes from very intelligent people.
Ha, yes. Intelligent people can be stupid.
Here's some reading for you on this;
Brain scans show that people who self-identify as conservative have larger and more active right amygdalas, an area of the brain that’s associated with expressing and processing fear. This aligns with the idea that feeling afraid makes people lean more to the right.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/psyc ... als-2018-2
https://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/doi/ ... h.16030051
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... fferences/
the more I don’t ruminate and just respond to conditions at hand
Excellent. Would you call this "living in the instant"?
But there is this underlying feeling in my mind of chaos, being pulled in so many directions, fears, worries, just pure scatteredness. Not being satisfied. Seeking. All that stuff
This might be a good place to write the story behind the feelings.

with love

vince

Trinidiana
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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby Trinidiana » Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:59 pm

hi Vince. As usual thank you for your always useful and lovely reply. Back in Orlando now, to trees and nature and my animals. As soon as I drove in my neighborhood, I saw a beautiful buck standing at the side of the road, I usually see more deer than the males so at first I thought it was a statue, but it wasn’t and it looked so regal and wise. Very beautiful.
i thought that the laughter was a good way of celebrating the recognition of that, but someone else that i have been 'working' with had another response (spontaneously) which thought might be even better. She said "When thoughts rise up about …why me, no I don’t want this … and future events, watch them then turn to softness and sensing."
i really like this. It has a sense of forgiveness as well as the recognition.
I really like this too, many times I am not able to laugh upon recognition , maybe a smile, but I find laughter to be reserved for something which truly cracks me up. I like this idea of softening. It works more for me.

On this note, So I don’t know why and I don’t think it’s necessarily helpful but somehow it’s happening, is more seeking, much more, but not in an unsatisfied way, more in an exciting way, anyway I found myself listening to Adyashanti a lot recently and he pretty much says EXACTLY what LU says about the self not being real, his definition of grok, being an understanding with ones whole body, like an aha moment, understanding with more than just the intellect, is brilliant, I thought of you , so I have found myself at a point completely getting the fact that there is no self on an intellectual level, but not fully grokking it because it can’t be grokked with the mind, the mind can seek but will NEVER anle able to grasp its own self illusion, the eye can’t see the eye and all that. So useless yet I seek, the paradox to that, I know my prison has no bars yet I search for them. Silly.

I feel I am in a place where I see the fallacies and fables and myths all around me, see how I and mostly all in the world have been conditioned with these silky stories, especially religious and self help ones too, wow, and they are all so pointless, some may be useful for navigating the dream, but they are all silly and childish and nonsense.

also, in order to wake up , the paradox is, it appears that one has to have the desire to wake up perhaps in order to wake up, yet until seeking stops, one can’t wake up. And the ONE never wakes up anyway, cause it’s not real, Such a mystery. And I have no choice in the matter do I. You know I’ve been at this for years? Wow No control yet here I am having this guidance and conversation with you.


Whew, So now back from this ranting digression, what I wanted to say about this idea of softening is , I was looking at the archives and I came Across a very short thread for someone that you guided, and you spoke about this very thing.

You said
Would you experience disappointment if you were to discover that what you are experiencing now, is liberation ?
In all of it's ordinariness, and with a projection of years of slow de-conditioning to look forward to ? Now this is the 'trick'. There is magic there, but one has to be really relaxed with the ordinariness to be sufficiently attentive to see it.
To put it another way, it takes total acceptance of what life offers to be able to see through the veil of what is considered 'normal' and appreciate the wonder.
If you see the stories that shape the constructs, the concepts that you most take to be literal, then you have the tools to continue to loosen the shackles of conformity.
He said
Right now thoughts are rumbling in the background, with some momentum to go into scenario making but this noticing softens them... They seem transparent/meaningless. In an earlier post you mentioned a non conceptual perceiving that is always present but so subtle that most miss it. There seems to be a "soft space" behind the thoughts where thinking disappears when i simply notice what arises in the mind.
.

You said
This brings us to a point where we realize that life-ing happens in a space before words arrive.
Not only do words completely fail to be adequate in describing with any subtlety, our experiencing, but they actively corrupt that experiencing when they arrive.
i 'get' from my experiencing, a sense of what you mean by "soft space". ..and yes, it is a gentle noticing. A place of no opinion or judgement. (we are forced by the limitations of language to use words like "space" and "place" as metaphors to communicate.)
And finally he said
Now, when thoughts do arise, and even occasionally when they are "indulged", there is a shifting to just noticing without judging whether or not these are pleasant or unpleasant (thoughts as well as sensations/feelings). They just die down naturally. that only a relaxed awareness is "needed. but seeing what you were pointing at: that the non-reactive noticing I described isn't something I do to get a result, but that it is merely(!) a recognition of that the "unmoving" silence of the noticing is It.

So all of this is to say that yes it is more helpful I think to soften, sense, relax, it is not judging and is non reactive, since it’s non judgemental it IS more forgiving. you said in one of the quotes ' gentle noticing' I like that a lot, it implies softening. The laughter thing will work when one sees the absurdities of the stories, but because for many, stories are so painful the laugh can seem contrived. Hope this makes sense. So gentle softening upon noticing i am going to try from now on. Gentle and softening also imply RELAXED, don’t they? Another thing comes to mind is that notion that a guide pointed out to me once of the simple unclenching of the fist, many times, for me , when noticing the stories , I am in a contracted and tense state , so I can use your new tool of gently softening with the concept of relaxation and simply unclenching the fist, the setting down of snow globe. The laughter is more of a doing and this way is more of a letting go, a being. One thing I am really understanding from you is that these stories and patterns etc, that. JUST this soft gentle noticing is ALL that is required. nothing more.

Like yesterday I was with my mum and I was able to recognise feelings of tension and slight frustration coming up directed towards her, I couldn’t laugh at it, but I think I was able to soften and notice and it helped . More softening would have been better but maybe I have helped launch a new pattern, we will see .
,

don't know what "living in the instant" actually is. I'm human so of course i have thoughts and feelings about the future and the past. ..but they are what life presents. Just as every experience is what life presents. THIS IS IT was the catchphrase that happened for me as the epiphany happened where i realized that seeking was all about the future and the end of seeking could only happen when there was total, unequivocal, willing acceptance of whatever was happening.
I said instant instead of now because I realise there really is no now, but it wasn’t a great substitute I haven’t fully grokked the THIS IS IT yet but I plan to, even though as i write this word plan , realising this implies a future I chuckle. I think it will happen when it happens which will be in an instant . Maybe. Ha!
the more I don’t ruminate and just respond to conditions at hand
Excellent. Would you call this "living in the instant"?

YES! It’s reponsding to this , THIS IS IT. rumination is being lost in thoughts and these cause suffering


However, Sometimes when I start to feel anxiety or start to worry about something, and I am able to notice and move on, though, instead of freedom I get a nagging feeling of evading something I am supposed to look at, a resistance kind of, and it’s sticky. Does this make sense to you? It’s the insistence of the mind to do something rather than move one and forget that thought pattern.

Finally, sorry so long today , I am going to try the stories behind the feelings exercise. Also, thanks for the reading about the brain differences, interesting. I wonder if these differences are character traits, or peoples conditionings. Probably both. Animals don’t have a self but they have preferences and characteristics for sure. Some horses are goof balls naturally it seems although probably they might not be if they had different pasts. Interesting stuff

Happy Sunday by the time you get this.

PS

I have noticed that there is always a sound to silence, much like the ringing sound of insects in the trees which I am hearing right now as my door is open. However even in the quiet of night, it’s like a continual ringing in my ears this sound, when I focus in on it, you can be in the tallest building and still the sound is there. When you focus upon it, otherwise it’s missed. I wonder if your tinnitus is really this. My story is it’s the original sound of OM, or what is, and all that. In the beginning was the word…. Sound seems primordial, also interesting to notice that the sense of hearing is the last one you lose upon death.

And, much like you taught me years ago to listen to the sound of the hawks and things in nature to remember to come back to the body, to the instant I dare say, well, listening to this Continual primordial sound also helps.

PSS

Another thing that helps is something Adyashanti said about when observing or noticing, kind of like the softening we were talking about, looking or noticing the way you would when you see a wild animal, you just kind of stop and ,look', with an innocent curiosity , it’s nothing to do with the mind, it’s like for that instant you break free beyond the illusion of self.

Feeling happy right now
Xoxxo Xoxxo
Thank you thank you Vince , I appreciate everything you do for me and others

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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:13 pm

Good evening Diana,
Happy Sunday by the time you get this.
It was waiting for me this Monday morning.
I saw a beautiful buck standing at the side of the road, I usually see more deer than the males so at first I thought it was a statue, but it wasn’t and it looked so regal and wise. Very beautiful.
Yes, I'm constantly blown away by the appearance of animals (and plants) There's something amazing about the variation of form.
it’s happening, is more seeking, much more, but not in an unsatisfied way, more in an exciting way,
Yes, i remember getting a real high from reading or listening to this stuff. Ha, now i don't do either. i can't really say why. It doesn't call me anymore.
I know my prison has no bars yet I search for them. Silly.
Don't judge it. (not silly) There may be a good story behind it.
and they are all so pointless, some may be useful for navigating the dream, but they are all silly and childish and nonsense.
Maybe. Oh, i know what you mean. i could easily write a story about how much better everything would be if they were different, but they're not. Accepting what is not optimal takes us a long way towards something better.
You know I’ve been at this for years? Wow
i was an active seeker (more like obsessive) for 43 years.
yet here I am having this guidance and conversation with you.
I'm glad that you are.
You said...
I'm impressed that i said that. (maybe you should collate them into a book)
He said
A good response. i don't remember any of it.
So gentle softening upon noticing i am going to try from now on.
Ok, good. Remember that you are not only letting go of tension from acting out the story, but you are celebrating the recognition that you were lost in it.
Sometimes when I start to feel anxiety or start to worry about something, and I am able to notice and move on, though, instead of freedom I get a nagging feeling of evading something I am supposed to look at, a resistance kind of, and it’s sticky.
Does this make sense to you?
Yes. There is an imperative to finish whatever is started. Have you ever had the experience of starting to say something to someone and they tell you that you have already told them, but you need to finish it anyway?
The laughter was a way of intentionally thwarting the satisfaction of finishing. This to break the conditioning (habit) and facilitate brain re-wiring.
Thank you thank you Vince , I appreciate everything you do for me and others
You're welcome. (your turn will (probably) come)

with love

vince

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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby Trinidiana » Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:36 pm

Hi Vince
Happy Sunday by the time you get this.
It was waiting for me this Monday morning.
For some reason, for the whole day yesterday I thought it was Saturday, that’s why I had said you would get it Sunday LOL. I only found out when my husband came home with my mother and told me it was actually Sunday. Very strange.
t’s happening, is more seeking, much more, but not in an unsatisfied way, more in an exciting way,
Yes, i remember getting a real high from reading or listening to this stuff. Ha, now i don't do either. i can't really say why. It doesn't call me anymore.
I think the reason you don’t need to read or listen is because you don’t seek anymore, you don’t have that seeking energy, you don’t need it because you have seen through, really grokked , the illusion of self. I don’t think reading or listening to much is probably a good thing for me. But it happens. And months go by when I don’t at all, yet still the illusion of self is there so who knows? I do feel though at times, like….. what is it going to take for me to finally really get this? I still think I just get lost most of the day in my thoughts.
Accepting what is not optimal takes us a long way towards something better.
This is a very hard one, seeing how everything is so broken it does get to me, or even with little things I will find myself complaining about them, acceptance it’s not easy. It’s not that I try to really change it or anything, just seeing the brokenness disturbs me.

Ha ha. I didn’t think that you would remember writing that what I sent you, it’s true sometimes when one read one’s own writing and thoughts from long ago, it can actually impress you. You do write very well. Sometimes I copy and paste some of the things you say to me or others and have them saved in my notes.
gentle softening upon noticing i am going to try from now on.
Ok, good. Remember that you are not only letting go of tension from acting out the story, but you are celebrating the recognition that you were lost in it.
Thanks for that reminder, I to forget to celebrate and that is important.

Well, I don’t have anything more to add for now this Monday morning Another week . Time just flies here
Oh, we are having a celebration of life for me dad next Saturday October. 2nd, I am already getting nervous to have to talk.

Xoxo
Diana

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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby Trinidiana » Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:12 pm

Me again

I saw this from you on a thread from the archives
Can you see that whatever description or explanation arises about any situation, about anything that life offers, that it is the totality, the all of 'what IS' ?
Whatever meaning it is given. Whatever morality is invoked. Whatever might be the consequence. It is THIS. THIS is IT.
There is nothing else. ..and it is already past tense. Finished. No chance to change it.
Nothing to do but enjoy the ride.
Can you see this ?
I cant see this completely.

Or, when I contemplate it, what comes up and I know Vince that this is thoughts, but what come up is that though there is so much beauty in this world that is part of this is it, there is also so much hatred, abuse and pure cruelty.

It’s true it’s is what it is, but seems hard to enjoy and accept that ride you know?
What am I missing?

What if I go my whole life vince and I don’t get this?

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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby vinceschubert » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:57 pm

Good evening Diana,
though there is so much beauty in this world that is part of this is it, there is also so much hatred, abuse and pure cruelty.

It’s true it’s is what it is, but seems hard to enjoy and accept that ride you know?
What am I missing?
This was the hardest thing for me to reconcile. i created the story that it is all a healing crisis akin to the body's attempt to eliminate toxins with a fever and vomiting. Whilst recognizing that as a story to make me feel better, i missed the story that everything could be better.
What if it can't be how my story of perfection paints it?
If i have to accept the horror and stupidity that the TV shows me, do i need to create another story about doomsday? Do i need to feel really bad about that? Is it going to help the situation if i feel really bad about it?
If i look at my experiences, the worst thing that i encounter is some momentary frustration over something pretty trivial.
That really bad stuff only affect me through story. Which is not to say that i can pretend that it isn't happening. i just have to recognize that it isn't happening to me. ..or around me.
Can i contribute to improving it? Yes, in my own small way i can be active in helping something better to evolve.
THIS. This IT. This THIS that it is. It is not what is 'out there'. It is my experiencing.
If my experiencing is because of a story on the TV, it is not what the story is about. It is my response to that.
Can i control that response? No, but recognizing that it is a response to a story will certainly modify it.

Happy modifying.

vince

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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby Trinidiana » Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:15 pm

Hi Vince

I agree , that it is the hardest thing for me to reconcile too, I know it’s the mind stepping in trying to figure it out which is pointless , but for me, I have this story that Life in its pure form, like in nature is brutal yes, but not cruel. I mean, an animal hunts another animal and eats it (my Dad always wondered why it had to be this way), and this is gruesome.

However, and I know this is a story, but with humanity, take the example of an innocent child born into a family, and from infancy let’s say, this child gets sexually and physically abused. This is hard for me to reconcile, the mind tells me it’s the patterns and conditionings from that family, those parents probably had the same thing happen to them and continue the pattern and on and on it has gone , vicious cycles repeating themselves . I know many people sexually abused.

My mind or story says that it’s because their true nature is being obscured, blocked, leading to ‘wrong' or 'lower' thinking, complete ignorance, internal pain and complete belief in this illusion of self spinning webs of stories , stories leading to bad actions. That if they could see that their thoughts which are not real but are powerful cause this damage, maybe the cycle could break. I feel all the ills in this world re because do people believing in the content of their thoughts. Believing in lies. Not sure why the setup had to be that way, and sometimes it makes it hard to enjoy the ride.

I have no idea, perhaps this material existence relies on contrast, everything dual must have opposites, so in addition to beauty there is terror,it’s a mystery as to why this is so and like you I have a story about the sickness of the planet and maybe some sort of a collective healing or sickness or whatever. Collectively humanity is like just hitting puberty maybe, and different parts of the world are actually at different ages and levels of thinking, mostly lower thinking,

I don’t know about in Australia, but here in the United States, it is happening directly around me. The stories I could give you through the restaurant alone, this place is truly damaged. So is my home country.

I am luckily not directly affected by many of them , and not sure if my responses matters or not, if there is anything much I can do besides simply be kind. And I see that my response is my own thinking and stories.

A lot of what plays out makes me mad and sad, boils down to those two emotions in a nutshell.

Anyway, it is what it is, it’s a mystery. Probably humanity will go the way of other species and that’s just fine isn’t it?

Feelings of gratitude arise that there is still beautify and kindness and even mystery

Xoxxo
Diana

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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby vinceschubert » Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:27 pm

Good morn'n lovely,
My mind or story says that it’s because their true nature is being obscured, blocked, leading to ‘wrong' or 'lower' thinking, complete ignorance, internal pain and complete belief in this illusion of self spinning webs of stories , stories leading to bad actions. That if they could see that their thoughts which are not real but are powerful cause this damage, maybe the cycle could break.
This is a good story. Probably accurate. ..but it's simplistic. It ignores the implication of inevitability. Hmm, no that's not the right word. Ha, visited a thesaurus and found a new word (for me) ..perfect. ineluctability.
i play golf 3 times a week with a bloke who is an ardent antivaxer. Out of that 12 hours or so, he inevitably rants and raves for at least 3 hours about how the government has no right to impose bla, bla. He is a good person, in spite of this. i like him, but after several time offering him ways to evade this suffering, i have accepted the ineluctability of it.
So, while i see how his thinking creates this emotional turmoil, i also see how it is an important part of his identity. Just as every 'bad' person in the world is invested in an identity. Just as they group together to enhance that identity. Just as they form corporations and use the excuse of profit to enhance their identity.
i might as well rail against the daylight as imagine that i can change this.
So, it comes back to me to recognize the (apparent) options of peace or suffering.

with love and empathy

vince

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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby Trinidiana » Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:06 am

Hi Vince

Ok. So this response was fitting. Because I went to my horses today which was lovely, and then decided to bring my mum here for a while, we had a nice time, I realise though that we have only so much we can really talk about since she is brainwashed by Fox News totally. Oh those Australian Murdoch’s have done SUCH damage to this planet haven’t they? But because of previous arguments , we both agree to not bring up stuff, politically speaking and all that. So we’ve been ok.

So then I drop her home and come home and lo and behold my hubby is actually home early. He tells me that my mum is annoying because she told him today that Biden is the worst President ever and that one million Hatians have come in to the US, total bogus of course, and he tells her no Trump is the worse president etc, etc

I kinda lost it because I tell him that she only talks to him about things like this because he taunts her etc and to please not tell me about this because it only pisses me off etc and makes me feel not to be with her, because honestly my blood does boil when I think of her saying this, knowing the absolute corruption of the orange monster. Like it viscerally affects me, even while at the same time recognizing that this is a thought pattern.

So then I came into my room to eat and I was seething, like kinda still am, and I am trying to see my thinking and all that , and the stories but I am pissed , recognising these emotions just welling up!
This is a good story. Probably accurate. ..but it's simplistic. It ignores the implication of inevitability. Hmm, no that's not the right word. Ha, visited a thesaurus and found a new word (for me) ..perfect. ineluctability.
I never heard that word either , I am not sure yet though if I get why inevitability is not enough, what am I missing ? Are you saying that it is the inevitability of conditioning, I think that is what I was trying to say in my last post, the patterns, the conditioning etc so I don’t quite understand.

After hearing what you said about that golf guy and so many more stories from how things are in the Caribbean, more and more I am realizing that it is not just an American thing this craziness but seems to have affected the whole world, and very so called intelligent people too !

So what I would say is that it is the thinking that causes the emotional turmoil and you have hit the nail on the head which i think I was trying to say too, it’s this fricking belief in identity and the I’m right you are wrong, red vs blue and on and on, it’s like people are getting so caught up , including myself to a degree I guess, with this identity thing. I try to tell myself that I am sane and seeing insanity, I try to check myself, but am I just like your golf guy too? Or my mom, but in reverse, sometimes i see how easy it is to really get caught up in it . It seems so obvious to see that trump is despicable and evil yet others don’t, due to their conditioning or whatever!

Everything you say about identity is spot on, and it just shows that this wrong thinking gets caught up leading to these false stories , making little selves more important, more right and on and on that causes all this. Literally I see everything that is happening now as a clinging to a false self and identity .

And what i think you are saying is that it is inevitable , and impossible to change. So is it all hopeless then, railing against daylight and all of that , because then I do see a lot of heartache and violence for humanity in the very near future. .
So, it comes back to me to recognize the (apparent) options of peace or suffering.
Can you expand, since as you we might as well be up against the daylight , then are you saying that when faced with this madness, around you, around me, etc that what brings comfort is to recognise that options of peace or suffering are really available in terms of our reactions to the craziness, that it is only in our mind that we ultimately choose peace or suffering. That this is rewriting a story to have a different internal feeling of peace and suffering , not dependent on the madness but instead with an intention of maybe creating a different internal story? We have choice over this, really? What do you think?

Let’s talk more, i hope you don’t think I have been too intense ….
More confused than ever,
Xoxoxo
D

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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby vinceschubert » Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:18 pm

Oh those Australian Murdoch’s have done SUCH damage to this planet haven’t they?
Yes absolutely. (i actually said this to a mate at golf this morning.)
..but if we look at it, we have deluded people with the right conditions for an excess of power that resulted in this. Nothing evil about him. Just somebody drunk on an identity addiction. (Why would Jerry Hall marry him??)
We are about to go into an election, and I'll bet that the conservatives who are in power will mount a fear campaign that gets them back in power. Fuck, our hospitals and schools and universities are starved of funds and they spend trillions on submarines and fighter planes. Ha, i feel the blood rising as i type this. Before i get lost in it, i recognize that thoughts are there that say "bring focus back onto your personal life. Is there anything bad or wrong with it?" ..and the answer is No, today was a beautiful day. Good things happened here. i had a game of golf. i had a beer with mates. i successfully set up my sister-in-law's new TV. i had a great meal. Watched a good show on Netflix. I'm healthy and happy. The people around me are happy. Even my sister-in-law who has been given a year to live with a brain tumor is feeling fine.
I never heard that word either, I am not sure yet though if I get why inevitability is not enough, what am I missing?
Inevitibiliy is about the future. Ineluctability is unavoidable. Inescapable.
Are you saying that it is the inevitability of conditioning
No, i am saying that it's there. It exists and no amount of shoulds will change it.
this craziness but seems to have affected the whole world, and very so called intelligent people too !
i agree. Ha, i read an article a few days ago about how intelligent people can be stupid. That there's no contradiction. https://www.newyorker.com/tech/frontal- ... are-stupid
Did you know that there was a race of hominid that had prefrontal cortex that was 50% bigger than ours, and that they are extinct. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... ctIKZ1Fu-Z How would you feel if the human species are creating their own doom as we speak? If the human race was extinct in 50 years? If the virus doesn't get us maybe climate change will, or a war with China.
If you knew that our extinction was inevitable, what would you do that is different to now?
it’s this fricking belief in identity and the I’m right you are wrong, red vs blue and on and on, it’s like people are getting so caught up , including myself to a degree I guess, with this identity thing.
Image
that it is only in our mind that we ultimately choose peace or suffering. That this is rewriting a story to have a different internal feeling of peace and suffering , not dependent on the madness but instead with an intention of maybe creating a different internal story? We have choice over this, really? What do you think?
Yes. ..but not a choice. The options are only there if all of the conditions are right. Then it's inevitable. It's definitely not the story that causes our suffering but the response we bring to it that does. Seeing this opens up the options.
It's like when i discovered that i can feel sadness without grief.
Grief is suffering from the story of loss that shouldn't have happened and will continue while the story gets repeated. Sadness is just pain and will fade fairly quickly. (and come back momentarily from time to time)
If Diana is a story and the responses to it, then you can write addendums or even whole now chapters anytime.
Let’s talk more
Yes.
i hope you don’t think I have been too intense ….
Ha, not at all.

with love

vince

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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby Trinidiana » Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:25 pm

Hi Vince

I am sorry for the delay, but I know that you will say it is ok.

That was a lovely lovely post from you , once again, my story is that we're definitely kindred spirits . The duck god picture is absolutely spot on , hilarious and scary all at once.

I get incensed too when I think of how much America spends on defense and what we could be doing instead with public education and so much more. And the politics here gets more and more and insane every day!

I had a talk with my brother when he was here about democracy and how young it really is and how it really could end at some point, why do we think it can’t? And everything is happening right before our eyes with the masses not having a clue how much craziness perhaps might go down.

I heard yesterday Trump went on a podcast and said that the real insurrection was November 8 election day, and that the stealing of the election from him is the crime of the century. That’s probably going to be a phrase we hear more of from him, he knows the playbook, repeat a lie enough, and the sheep WILL believe him. On the one hand I find it shocking, but really this is probably the kind of thing that has happened since time began.

But….. More and more I am finding that although my nature is to always want things to be right with the world, as you say, it is what it is, it is THIS, it is going to play out exactly as it will and there is not a damn thing I can do about it. But instead of just getting a nihilistic feeling, I find myself being more OK with it. I was also listening to something else that made me think, it was saying that although we can all see you that Facebook is horrible and we see it’s many dangers, Facebook is just all these humans collectively coming together with their opinions, their crazy ideas, I mean that’s just how it works I guess. Can we really try to stop this? I think not. Humans are collectively creating this madness because collectively , at this point, we ARE mad. Well madness wins out if its the majority sadly enough. So much of this world’s hassles, take security in banking for example is really Peter paying for Paul as so many Pauls just cant be honest. Anyway, I digress. The point is I am finding a bit more acceptance.
How would you feel if the human species are creating their own doom as we speak? If the human race was extinct in 50 years? If the virus doesn't get us maybe climate change will, or a war with China.
If you knew that our extinction was inevitable, what would you do that is different to now?

I feel this is the most pertinent passage from your post to be commented on. Oh I do indeed feel that the human species is creating it’s own doom, (and carrying a lot of innocent other species into extinction), ‘as we speak’ ,as you say, how do I feel, ………..well maybe sad, but just like you I realise that I can feel sad but not grieve. I am finding that I am more and more able to experience the feeling ,the pain , sadness or whatever it is without getting lost in the story. Not always of course, maybe the conditions are getting more and more to make this happen.

If I knew that our extinction was inevitable, I guess that what I would do would be to more enjoy my remaining time on Earth, as a human, exactly how you described yourself Focusing on having a good day, well just in my own life try to see that too I can find myself ruminating on the future and wondering if we will be OK financially, or be like my mother who thinks everything is horrible in the world and full of fear, or I can just choose to enjoy the beauty in my own backyard and neighborhood, the joy I feel with the horses and riders when I volunteer, the joy my critters give me, the expressions of art and beauty everywhere, the greatness of humanity even with its ridiculous madness, I guess I would just be able to let it all go more and more know that at some level it’s OK. Enjoy each day as best as i can.

I read some of the threads here, I am usually impressed with many of the people‘s intelligence, and really empathize and identify with the seeking, but boy do I see all the stories they all wrapped up in, and also such an a sense of unworthiness with so many people, sadness arises at the deep psychological problems. Damn, we humans are complex Vince.

You have helped me so much Vince, and I am really feeling like I am starting to crack this in many ways. Grok it.

So, The function for my dad went very well, I prepared an eight minute speech, and I honestly wasn’t even really particularly nervous. A couple years ago that would not have been the case.

Diana is a story and the responses to it, then you can write addendums or even whole now chapters anytime.
I see Diana is a story, i guess maybe being able to make a speech that touched so many at my Dad’s function was an addendum, do you think so?

With much love my friend
Xoxo xoxo
Diana

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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby vinceschubert » Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:20 pm

Good evening Diana,
I am finding a bit more acceptance.
Good stuff. Now, how would you go NOT watching the news. Having the only source of what is happening 'out there', coming from the utterings of people that you meet who tell you unsolicited?
Other than that, you relate only to your current circumstances. Could you do this for 2 days (and nights)?
If I knew that our extinction was inevitable, I guess that what I would do would be to more enjoy my remaining time on Earth,
Well, here is some good news.. Your extinction is inevitable, and you don't know when. It could be tomorrow..
..and nobody on their deathbed ever said "i wish i spent more time worrying about what was happening in the world.", or "i wish i'd worked harder." What they all say is "i wish i'd spent more time immersed in my love for family/friends/pets."
I see Diana is a story, i guess maybe being able to make a speech that touched so many at my Dad’s function was an addendum, do you think so?
It certainly sounds like it.
How about re-writing the chapter where Diana obsesses over all of the shit that is reported happening in the world.

with love

vince

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Re: Ending the constant searching

Postby Trinidiana » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:30 am

HI Vince
how would you go NOT watching the news. Having the only source of what is happening 'out there', coming from the utterings of people that you meet who tell you unsolicited?
Other than that, you relate only to your current circumstances. Could you do this for 2 days (and nights)?
Ok, so I have done what you asked. I don't actually 'watch' news ever, but I read articles and listen to podcasts so I stopped these for several days. It was a more pleasant existence, I can't say that anything came from the utterings of people though because I don't really talk to people about news, actually I certainly don't talk about news in America, I don't think people who don't live in America really can understand what is going on here, if you do follow politics. But I wasn't as full with politic thoughts

I have just been trying to focus in on sensations and happenings and I do think its a more peaceful existence, though I still have my 'negative and angry' thoughts, which I am noticing. Also, I feel that I can't be totally unaware of what is going on because that would be ambivalent and I feel that is an unhelpful emotion.
Well, here is some good news.. Your extinction is inevitable, and you don't know when. It could be tomorrow..
..and nobody on their deathbed ever said "i wish i spent more time worrying about what was happening in the world.", or "i wish i'd worked harder." What they all say is "i wish i'd spent more time immersed in my love for family/friends/pets."
Yes I do know that "my" extinction and eventually humanity's is inevitable and I do have gratitude for life , you know this . So I am focusing on immersing myself in what I like, watching the natural world, watching my thoughts, much of which are unproductive , but also trying to watch it all play out in the world too, I cannot fully exist in a bubble. I try to understand what is happening around me, knowing hat , although life is a dream, whilst in the dream for future generations at least, actions today and awareness can bring change tomorrow. I just have to figure out how I can do this in a healthy way.

Things are a little better for me right now, not all, but in some ways. I take day by day like the weather, ,knowing that it will change every day and some weather is more disruptive than others.


Continuing with the Diana story whilst trying to always remember its just that a story. I do notice that pull towards always my mind being onto the next thing and not satisfied with the present
I think that's it for now

xoxo
Diana


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