How to experience the no self

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vinceschubert
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Re: How to experience the no self

Postby vinceschubert » Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:13 pm

Good morning Undecided,
Misleading the mind as oneself.
Can you explain this in a little more detail?
So the mind grows of experiences and comes to conclusion about those experiences. Any new experience which adds to it, forms the shape of a persona. So it makes conclusions about new things based on already stored information. It’s something accumulated.
Hmmm, this is pretty abstract. It is about how it happens (in story form). Can you find examples in 'real life' of it happening?
what triggered the shift. Was there an event or a question that triggered an epiphany?
something popped and the mind activity settled everything got still, followed by a sharpened perception and seeing that all this what makes a persona are just ideas.
Excellent. This is a description of a memory of an experience. Very good.
See if you can describe something that you remember from your experience that 'solidified' the idea of a Self in the above question.

with love

vince

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Undecided
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Re: How to experience the no self

Postby Undecided » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:58 am

Good morning Vince
Misleading the mind as oneself.
Can you explain this in a little more detail?
So the mind grows of experiences and comes to conclusion about those experiences. Any new experience which adds to it, forms the shape of a persona. So it makes conclusions about new things based on already stored information. It’s something accumulated.
Hmmm, this is pretty abstract. It is about how it happens (in story form). Can you find examples in 'real life' of it happening?
Hmmm, this is pretty abstract. It is about how it happens (in story form). Can you find examples in 'real life' of it happening?
Hopefully this time. So my mind used to come up with thoughts about the non attractiveness of the looking of my body. Nobody likes me and so on. Well, after quiet some time living like this, no social contacts, my brother introduced me to his friends, which were very welcoming. They Didn’t mind having me around them, so questioning myself at this time happened. It didn’t seem to be the absolute truth what I have been told my whole life until this point.

Just in case you oversaw my separate post

Decision: based on past experiences, to live in the best way one knows
Can you pull up from memory two things.
First is when and what you decided to do something (anything) and it happened exactly the way you intended it?
..and Second, something that you decided that turned out quite different to that intention?
First: so for example meditation, when there is free time and nothing else to do, I sit down. Just watching the breath for a couple of minutes. The mind settles so does the body and it’s quite a pleasant experience.
Second: I hope the meditation example is ok in this case too, so quite the same intention to settle the mind a bit through bringing attention to the breath. This time The mind is quite active so is the body activity, that it’s hardly possible to follow the breath in this case. After the sitting the wished result of a relaxed state didn’t happen.

Undecided

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vinceschubert
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Re: How to experience the no self

Postby vinceschubert » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:42 pm

Good morning Undecided,
Misleading the mind as oneself.
Can you explain this in a little more detail?
so questioning myself at this time happened. It didn’t seem to be the absolute truth what I have been told my whole life until this point.
Good stuff. Tangible experience. This is what we want. Keeping perspective from that of the organism.
I hope the meditation example is ok in this case too,
Yes, they are both good descriptions of experience. So what conclusions can you draw from them about decisions?

with love

vince

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Re: How to experience the no self

Postby Undecided » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:47 am

Hello Vince, I wish u a good morning too
Keeping perspective from that of the organism.
That’s a on point statement, love it.
Yes, they are both good descriptions of experience. So what conclusions can you draw from them about decisions?
In this case, that the mind is lookin for pleasant experiences in the contrary wants to dodge unpleasant ones.

With Love

Undecided

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vinceschubert
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Re: How to experience the no self

Postby vinceschubert » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:02 am

Good morning Undecided,
In this case, that the mind is lookin for pleasant experiences in the contrary wants to dodge unpleasant ones.
Hmm, ok, that was what was behind the prompting for the decisions, but not the actual outcome.
On the one hand, you had decisions that seemed to have the desired outcome.
On the other hand you had decisions that failed to deliver the desired outcome.
What does this tell you about deciding to control a particular outcome?

with love

vince

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Re: How to experience the no self

Postby Undecided » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:30 pm

Hey Vince,
What does this tell you about deciding to control a particular outcome?
The outcome can not be controlled.

With love

Undecided

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vinceschubert
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Re: How to experience the no self

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:04 am

Good morning Undecided,
What does this tell you about deciding to control a particular outcome?
The outcome can not be controlled.
So decisions happen but whether they culminate in a particular outcome or not isn't something that we can control. So what do you think is happening when we feel good because the outcome that we wanted occurs, or feel bad when it doesn't? (use a memory of your own experiencing to answer this.)

with love

vince

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Re: How to experience the no self

Postby Undecided » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:50 am

Hey vince
So what do you think is happening when we feel good because the outcome that we wanted occurs, or feel bad when it doesn't? (use a memory of your own experiencing to answer this.)
So I started showering cold every day, with the intention of staying under the water for at least 5 minutes. When the 5 minute mark was reached I felt good because the Limitation of thinking this might be not possible for me has been crushed. We break through limitations of our own thoughts which make us feel good, or do not, taking this thoughts as reality and limit ourselfs.

With love

Undecided

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vinceschubert
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Re: How to experience the no self

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:33 pm

Good morning Undecided,
So what do you think is happening when we feel good ..., or feel bad ...
So I started showering cold every day,
Hmm, a good description of experience, but nothing of what you think is happening behind it. ...well maybe a little with "We break through limitations of our own thoughts which make us feel good or do not, taking these thoughts as reality and limit ourselves.", but this is conceptual again.
Next shower watch what is happening with thought patterns while it is happening then report.

with love

vince

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Re: How to experience the no self

Postby Undecided » Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:45 pm

Hey Vince,

watch what is happening with thought patterns while it is
happening then report.
So I still have no understanding what is happening, so here’s at least description of my experience.
Moving to the shower, the mind resist, thoughts of not wanting to shower cold. I start showering breathing trying to focus attention on the breath. Many thoughts about everything coming up. Half way through the shower, thoughts shifting from resistance to achieving the 5 minute mark. They are supportive now and want to achieve the goal. finished showering, feeling refreshed and good.

So in the beginning there was conflict of wanting to do it and not wanting to do it same time = unpleasantness.
When the thoughts synchronized with the intention of having a cold shower for 5minutes the unpleasantness vanished in the process.

With love

Undecided

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vinceschubert
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Re: How to experience the no self

Postby vinceschubert » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:15 pm

Good morning Undecided,
so here’s at least a description of my experience.
..and a good description it is.
Now, next shower, i want you to focus on the messenger, and not the message.
With thoughts the message is what produces the response.
What happens if you focus on the fact that a thought is present, without getting involved in what it is about?

with love

vince


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