Take a look

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Gervais
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Re: Take a look

Postby Gervais » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:15 am


Could you observe and report the process of that separation?

Again, could you describe how something called "point of view" keeps you
from that? I'd like you to not to theorize but tell the exact process you can observe when
actually walking. Do you need a "point of view" for that?
The separation is quick. When I look at it: I see a page. It is as if when seeing the black parts, they sort of come into focus and the letters/words just appear in thinking.
I see a glass at the desk before me. Seeing happens, and then the separation happens, there is like a focus where the contours are in focus and “glass” comes up. Perhaps as a word, but just like there is knowledge what that object is.

Regarding “point of view”, you speak of it as if it’s a thing. I just use that label to describe my perceived relation to another object. It’s ongoing.
When walking it happens automatically, I don’t necessarily think of it (now when I did it, I did think about it just because there was thinking of answering you).

However labels aren’t necessary. “Close”, “far”, “to the left”, “about to hit the wall”... walking adjusts itself.
Sometimes the wall wasn’t even observed in seeing then sensation “pain” and perhaps later see “wall”.

And yes, the creation of a thing and of a viewpoint are similar.

There is a spacial relationship created between things. But if I skip the words, I can’t explain what is happening.

Best,
G

Bananafish
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Re: Take a look

Postby Bananafish » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:24 am

Good that you noticed it’s unexplainable;
are you still sure that there is separation?

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Gervais
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Re: Take a look

Postby Gervais » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:30 pm

Hi!
Much of what is going on isn’t really explainable I find. All words just diminish it to something easier to handle :)

Sure?
No, but to me the glass is separated from the table. Sure it is just one canvas with colors but the parts are separate at the same time.

I don’t jusf live in a world where everything is just one jumble of experience or however “no separation” is perceived 😀
Thanks!
G

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Re: Take a look

Postby Bananafish » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:57 pm

Hi Gervais. :)

but to me the glass is separated from the table.

What's between glass and table? What makes them separate?
Please observe a glass and a table.

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Gervais
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Re: Take a look

Postby Gervais » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:31 am

Hello!
When the glass is on the table, the colors and shades that are made into “glass” are separated where a “border” is, that is there is a shift between the colors that are made into glass and those made into table.
I have one right here in front of me. There is also lines where “water” is.

It is exactly as in a photograph, where there is one piece, one picture, but the colors are made into objects, glass or table.
There are some other cues here that seem to make a “real glass” and not a “photo of”.

I know I am not supposed to imagine, but if the “glass” was exactly the same colors as “table” there wouldn’t be a “glass” created in the seen.

Best,
G

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Re: Take a look

Postby Bananafish » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:19 am

Hi Gervais. :)

the colors and shades that are made into “glass”

What is it that does this?

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Gervais
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Re: Take a look

Postby Gervais » Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:18 pm

Hi!
It’s the same. I don’t know.
I look at this scene with all these colors and “glass” “table” “chair” are there somehow. I can’t catch how or even that it’s “made” or “separated”.
G

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Re: Take a look

Postby Bananafish » Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:52 pm

“glass” “table” “chair” “made” or “separated”

When you don't think about these, are they still there?
Please inquire wholeheartedly. Don't rush.

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Gervais
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Re: Take a look

Postby Gervais » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:44 am

Hi!
So what I found is:
The separate objects are there separated out.
Like watching for something at a table (did just this). There is stuff, but looking for the key for instance, when stuff gets into focus they get to be separate even if I don’t (knowingly) label them.
So they aren’t there as those specific labels, but they get separated out from the mass of stuff.

It’s like mindlessly drinking out of a glass. The glassiness isn’t there, but it is the glass that is being used, not an unseparated whole.

It’s kind of tricky, it is as if it is there as a separate something and then again it is not there as the concept of that particular thing (not thinking of “what is this thing I have in my hand? Let’s describe all of its features)

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Re: Take a look

Postby Bananafish » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:09 am

Very nice observation, Gervais. :)

Now, what about self? When there is no
focus on it (whatever kind of focus may it be), is it
there as something separate from everything
else?

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Gervais
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Re: Take a look

Postby Gervais » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:11 pm

Hi
It isn’t there at all for any practical purposes.
When you say no focus at all, if there is no focus at all the glass isn’t there (separate or not).
The same way, if I am focused on the glass, the glass is separated from other stuff when I bring them into focus. But there is no self there until any focus is on it. So it isn’t separate or not separate. It just isn’t.

Is what I see.

Hmmm... interesting...
waiting for a shift... no... not yet 😃

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Re: Take a look

Postby Bananafish » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:53 pm

Are you imagining what a "shift" should be?
If that's the case, there may be a possibility that you'll miss it.

Do you have any expectations around that?

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Gervais
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Re: Take a look

Postby Gervais » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:05 am

Hmmm
It’s kind of fuzzy, but I have a vision that there will be some kind of “haha! Now I GET it” in everyday life.
So just some kind of perceived change in perspective but I don’t know what to look for.

I’ve had this realization quite tangibly some years ago - when I look away everything is gone. Or every sensation appears and there is no here nor there. I thought there was a shift.
But that isn’t here as vividly any more.

Now I experienced it with the glass and self bot being here when not focusing and then I sort of go back to everything being separate and here again.
Perhaps I am expecting some kind of:
Yeah, fine, in this life to interact with others I act on existing objects. BUT I know now, I’ve seen the matrix.

Perhaps like seeing behind the special fx in a movie?

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Re: Take a look

Postby Bananafish » Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:54 pm

Yes, that doesn't seem like an expectation that is off the mark.

Now, could you tell what self is, where it is, when and how it appears?

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Gervais
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Re: Take a look

Postby Gervais » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:27 pm

Hmmm...
It is an idea.
It isn’t anywhere till I think about it, as an idea. It doesn’t have any substance, yet here I am.
It is not needed to do stuff, to live. But to refer to... hmmm... what exactly?
Sensations, thoughts, experience.

Hmmm... not sure.
If the doctor asks me what ails me.
Who has that headache? Me.
And yet logic now says no one.
But do I feel I am not a self “in the gut”?
No.

Am not sure where that stickiness lies.


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