Painful repetitive thought patterns

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Connolly
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Connolly » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:04 pm

Would you be able to do some painting now? Allow yourself to be absorbed in it?
No I can’t seem to be able to it. Too many worries since the COVID situation.

Close your eyes. Can you find any separation between sound & Hearing? Or is it all one?
There is just the hearing. A self doesn’t hear it. But the. What does?

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Anastacia42
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:39 am

Hi Helen,
Close your eyes. Can you find any separation between sound & Hearing? Or is it all one?
There is just the hearing. A self doesn’t hear it. But the. What does?
Does there have be a "someone" or "something" that hears? Couldn't hearing be one simple happening?

Don't go to thoughts.

Look & see what is there.

Loving
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Anastacia42
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:56 pm

Hi Helen,

Let me add some to the Hearing looking:

Let's try LOOKING as HEARING.

Find a sound to focus on, maybe music, but with no words. Then sit there and LOOK.

Is there any difference between sound & that which is hearing sound?

Is the sound inside or outside?

Hearing Exercise

Find somewhere quiet to sit. Rest for a moment and listen to the sounds in the room where you are, or sounds from outside. Whatever it is, I'll just refer to it as 'what can be heard'.

1) In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'what can be heard'?

2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only 'what can be heard'?

3) An 'I'? a 'body'? a 'person'? a brain? a pair of ears? Can these be found doing the hearing? Or is there just what can be heard'?

What do you find?

Can an INHERENT HEARER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

Write & say what is found.


And here is a very brief meditation seed from Sam Harris from the Waking Up app. Click on the link to listen.

https://dynamic.wakingup.com/moment/DDD61B

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Connolly
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Connolly » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:47 pm

Is t
here any difference between sound & that which is hearing sound?

There does t seem to be anything other than hearing
Is the sound inside or outside?
Happens inside
1) In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'what can be heard'?
No. Thoughts seem to come after hearing.
2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only 'what can be heard'?
Only hearing.
3) An 'I'? a 'body'? a 'person'? a brain? a pair of ears? Can these be found doing the hearing? Or is there just what can be heard'?
during hearing there is nothing other than hearing.

Can an INHERENT HEARER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?
No hearer in that instant. The I returns with the thought of past and future.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:40 pm

Hi Helen,

Yes. Let's check this one.
Is the sound inside or outside?
Happens inside
Check. Is there any "inside" or "outside" in Actual Experience?


Yes, thoughts may arise after hearing.
No hearer in that instant. The I returns with the thought of past and future.
Right... just content of thought, not AE.

How does it feel to see this Hearing is just hearing with no one there?

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Connolly
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Connolly » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:46 pm

Check. Is there any "inside" or "outside" in Actual Experience?
Of course. There is only hearing that doesn’t have a location.
How does it feel to see this Hearing is just hearing with no one

It’s what a I tried to describe a while ago but didn’t make sense. In the moment of hearing, in fact all AE there is no one in the instant of hearing etc. I remember some months ago with Rupert Spira, seeing no I in hearing and it was both a revelation but then days later mind denied it. This doesn’t seem to have any impact on me seeing there being no I. So there must be a strong belief in an I that overrides this seeing. This is why I get so terrible upset about where I have come to. The I seems stronger than ever. Horrible depressing thoughts. It’s obvious I am giving them lots of house room. I need a Barron Katie afternoon!

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Anastacia42
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:37 am

Hi Helen,

I know it can be terribly frustrating to "know" and not to SEE. And to SEE and "lose it."

You might read Katie's "A Mind at Home With Itself," but doing Worsheets is where it's at.

Imagine “me”

Many experience the ‘me’ as being centred in the head.

What I would like you to do is imagine a small apple centred in the head.

Before the apple disappears….

…imagine a canary centred in the head, tweeting away.

Before, the canary flies off (weird huh?)….

…imagine a 'me' centred in the head.

Stay with it…

…imagine it is completely transparent. See straight through it…

…imagine there not seeming to be a 'me' in the head anymore.

Give it a go, see what happens.


Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Connolly
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Connolly » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:48 pm

imagine it is completely transparent. See straight through it…

…imagine there not seeming to be a 'me' in the head anymore.

Give it a go, see what happens.
There is nothing. I sensed a little relief. Only for an instant as my debilitating thoughts took a back seat. Again I know it’s all mind and thoughts do is create story around AE but they are so compelling.
I went back to asking where the hearing is found. For a second the truth is seen that there is no location but mind tries to grab it and asks the same old, by now actually, quite boring questions of what is it that hears.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:06 pm

Good, Helen!

Keep doing anything that is giving you glimpses of no self, glimpses of what really is beyond the stories.

And please forgive me, but there is nothing "compelling" about these lies. LOOK for what is true.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Connolly
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Connolly » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:20 pm

And please forgive me, but there is nothing "compelling" about these lies. LOOK for what is true
.
Could you please help me to see what the thoughts aren’t compelling. Yes they are story but I struggle not to believe in them. I am seeing that they are mostly scenes from the future so not happening now but I feel there is a strong pull of ‘it might so be prepared’ I cannot see the lies in this. I believe that thinking about the future scenarios help protect me.
I need perhaps to look at who is it protecting.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:47 pm

Yes, that's one way to do it: question whether there is anyone there at all, and since there is not, why would some "self" need protecting.

But let's go at it from the Time angle, first.

Time Exercise

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in Actual Experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

And if there are only thoughts about time, what is so compelling if you are only NOW?


That may help with this idea of "compelling." Nothing can be "compelling," if there is no future and no past.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Connolly
Posts: 81
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Connolly » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:15 pm

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time
?
Yes but I know that thoughts make it so
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Oooooo no. Never felt that.
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
There can’t be in AE I suppose. But again my found ‘knowledge’ of AE says if only sensing and seeing exist then time isn’t part of AE
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving
?
It isn’t. Thought makes it so
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
No
How long does the ‘now’ last
?
It must always be here now
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end
?
The now seems ‘bigger’ than any start or end
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
Gosh. It starts in the mind
What is the ‘past’ in Actual Experience
?
There isn’t one if only sensing and perceiving are real.
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’
?
Ooops I sort of answered this one earlier. No there can be no time in AE
And if there are only thoughts about time, what is so compelling if you are only NOW?
These questions showed me how much of my attention is taken up in mind. Stories. What is showing up is ‘I need’ to have these stories for whatever reason. Drama? Control? Self punishment? There can be no time yet if there still an I ‘in control’ then mind must create it for story.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:04 pm

if there still an I ‘in control’ then mind must create it for story.
Time & time again, you find no "I."

And still you lie to yourself about it.

Stop lying & look for what is true. Do you still believe in Santa Claus after you saw through? Then why continue this belief in a "me"???


These questions showed me how much of my attention is taken up in mind. Stories.
Yes. Most of it.
What is showing up is ‘I need’ to have these stories for whatever reason. Drama? Control? Self punishment?
Masochistic STORIES. Find any proof you "need" such sick punishment?

Right. No time.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Anastacia42
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Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:16 pm

Hi Helen,

This may be more blunt than you need, but it is a good thing to read:

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/reso ... ar-seeker/

Hope it helps.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

User avatar
Connolly
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:56 am

Re: Painful repetitive thought patterns

Postby Connolly » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:11 pm

This may be more blunt than you need,
Ok maybe but I have found that where we have come to now in the conversation this message was in the last correspondence and leaves me with nowhere to go.
This talks of frustration and walking away, yes, and it says that the pointer can’t be of much use and it’s wrong. no. In my case this is not so. I know it to be the truth and therefore of great use.
It says that a dialogue is t needed but helps understanding but it can get the job done. I feel I understand a great deal of the non dual path but I am trying too hard to understand this.
So you have offered me so much but surely even more practice and knowledge can never bring me to truth. It already exists here and only thoughts around an I is complicating the seeing.
I know this
We have reached an impasse as before.
You are right
A
nd still you lie to yourself about it.
Stop lying & look for what is true


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