Looking deeply into the the perspective of self expierence

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Sachin
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Re: Looking deeply into the the perspective of self expierence

Postby Sachin » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:46 pm

Hey,
Ok, please choose two distant objects, observe them carefully, and list every single proof that they are distant. :)
1. I can see there is distance between where I am & the object



How do you perceive a thought taking ownership?
The constant narrative, like
"I have to do this"
I have to workout tmr morning
I hate uncomfortable situations, I must avoid
I must listen to some music
I should have ordered something else

Bananafish
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
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Re: Looking deeply into the the perspective of self expierence

Postby Bananafish » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:05 pm

1. I can see there is distance between where I am & the object


Where are you?
Can you point at it with your finger?


How do you perceive a thought taking ownership?
The constant narrative, like
"I have to do this"
I have to workout tmr morning
I hate uncomfortable situations, I must avoid
I must listen to some music
I should have ordered something else
[/quote]



What of these suggest that thoughts are taking ownership?

What do thoughts own, and how? Can they own a thing?

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Sachin
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Re: Looking deeply into the the perspective of self expierence

Postby Sachin » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:52 am

Where are you?
Can you point at it with your finger?
It still feels like I am at the Eyes( based on knowledge) or I'm the experience of seeing (based on looking)

And the voice complements this. When I think I should look der.. I look. When I say don't look.. I can look away & not see it.. That's not the case with sound or sensations. They happen regardless.
What of these suggest that thoughts are taking ownership?
The voice is responsible for how the ambience for this body has to be. It takes ownership of this body & it's surrounding. If der is a need.. It automatically suggests.
What do thoughts own, and how? Can they own a thing?
If it gets assigned to me either by someone or myself.
For ex if there are 2 rooms. They both are just rooms.
But if one of them gets assigned to me.. Then it's my room.
It's not that the room has changed but a mental note as to this is mine happens. And the voice takes responsibility of it.
Likewise with many other things.



Regards,

Bananafish
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
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Re: Looking deeply into the the perspective of self expierence

Postby Bananafish » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:04 am

Hi Sachin.:)


It still feels like I am at the Eyes( based on knowledge) or I'm the experience of seeing (based on looking)


Where is “the experience of seeing?” Can you pinpoint it?


And the voice complements this. When I think I should look der.. I look. When I say don't look.. I can look away & not see it..


Let this thought arise: “I should look at my feet.”
Does thinking this itself actually make you look?
Do your fingers move just by thinking “move, move, move?”


The voice is responsible for how the ambience for this body has to be. It takes ownership of this body & it's surrounding. If der is a need.. It automatically suggests.


This part didn’t really make sense to me. Can you elaborate?


For ex if there are 2 rooms. They both are just rooms.
But if one of them gets assigned to me.. Then it's my room.
It's not that the room has changed but a mental note as to this is mine happens. And the voice takes responsibility of it.
Likewise with many other things.


I see, you’re talking about labels.
If you literally put a sticky label with the word “Sachin,” on a jar, does
that mean the label owns that jar?



Warm regards,


Bananafish

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Sachin
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Re: Looking deeply into the the perspective of self expierence

Postby Sachin » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:38 pm

Where is “the experience of seeing?” Can you pinpoint it?
entire experience of noticing the presence of these different colors or darkness
Let this thought arise: “I should look at my feet.”
Does thinking this itself actually make you look?
Do your fingers move just by thinking “move, move, move?”
No no. I have to move certain parts of the body.Many times you do something without thinking.
This is such a clear example to see the gap btw thinking & doing.

Man this is so confusing & frustrating. Who is thinking & Who is doing.
It seems like I am doing & I am thinking sometimes. But i am not able to find an I. But i feel/think I am doing it.
This part didn’t really make sense to me. Can you elaborate?
When there is hunger. I think i gotta go eat & then i do it
When it's cold. I think i gotta put on a coat & then do it
When its boring. I think i should do something & then i think of something & do it.
Most of the time it's like i'm thinking with effort. But the remaining times the thinking or voice is happening on its own.
So when it's cold or hungry or bored or working etc, thinking happens about this body & how to satisfy it. So thinking or voice takes responsibility.
Yesterday I was feeling I was this voice in the head. This automatic thinking pattern. Maybe bcz I was exhausted yesterday.
But today I feel I'm thinking. Or I have more control over thinking. Especially after that pointing example!
I see, you’re talking about labels.
If you literally put a sticky label with the word “Sachin,” on a jar, does
that mean the label owns that jar?
No.
I don't find a logical explanation to explain my response. It's almost like defensive.
Is this just out of social habits. Should I look into this?

Bananafish
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Re: Looking deeply into the the perspective of self expierence

Postby Bananafish » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:00 pm

Hi Sachin. :)


entire experience of noticing the presence of these different colors or darkness


Can you pinpoint it? Yes or no?


It seems like I am doing & I am thinking sometimes. But i am not able to find an I. But i feel/think I am doing it.


What's hat feeling? Could you feel it and describe?
What is the feeling that there is an "I?"



So when it's cold or hungry or bored or working etc, thinking happens about this body & how to satisfy it. So thinking or voice takes responsibility.


Again, do you have to think "I am hungry" to actually eat something?
Do you have to think "dodge the car." to dodge the car that is coming to you?

Are thoughts responsible for actions, or is that responsibility imagined / supposed?


Yesterday I was feeling I was this voice in the head. This automatic thinking pattern. Maybe bcz I was exhausted yesterday.
But today I feel I'm thinking. Or I have more control over thinking. Especially after that pointing example!


What is that "I" that has control over thinking?
Can you see, hear or touch that "I" that is thinking?


I don't find a logical explanation to explain my response. It's almost like defensive.
Is this just out of social habits. Should I look into this?


Yes. And defense may be coming from fear. What do you fear, regarding
the exploration into the existence of self?

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Sachin
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Re: Looking deeply into the the perspective of self expierence

Postby Sachin » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:54 pm

Can you pinpoint it? Yes or no?
no
What's hat feeling? Could you feel it and describe?
What is the feeling that there is an "I?"
plz don't laugh!
but it's kinda this energy. not strictly limited.
out of this energy i'm thinking; out of this energy i'm moving;
this is my experience on most days when i'm happy, even today

but somedays when exhausted or upset, internal voice seems dominant
the thought I or me seems to be me; this body seems to be me
this energy just does not seem dominant
Again, do you have to think "I am hungry" to actually eat something?
Do you have to think "dodge the car." to dodge the car that is coming to you?
Sometimes I do. But most of the time i think "I have to go eat". "What should i eat"
No it's a reflex & sometimes i think about 'how' to dodge the car
Are thoughts responsible for actions, or is that responsibility imagined / supposed?
Thoughts aren't responsible for actions. Thinking is a tool or faculty used by me when i want to perform actions.
But most of the times, i need to believe actions happened or thinking led to actions automatically without me getting involved.
What is that "I" that has control over thinking?
Can you see, hear or touch that "I" that is thinking?
No. It's more a feeling of aliveness or activeness. Not particularly localized.
Yes. And defense may be coming from fear. What do you fear, regarding
the exploration into the existence of self?
No. It's more like that's mine. How can you dispute that? Stop messing around with what's mine.

Bananafish
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
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Re: Looking deeply into the the perspective of self expierence

Postby Bananafish » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:14 pm

Hi Sachin. :)


but it's kinda this energy. not strictly limited.
out of this energy i'm thinking; out of this energy i'm moving;
this is my experience on most days when i'm happy, even today


Do you move out of the energy, or does that energy itself move?
Is there a you that is separate from that energy?


but somedays when exhausted or upset, internal voice seems dominant
the thought I or me seems to be me; this body seems to be me
this energy just does not seem dominant


Could you elaborate on this?
What is the difference between being dominant and not dominant?


But most of the time i think "I have to go eat". "What should i eat"
No it's a reflex & sometimes i think about 'how' to dodge the car


What if you lost the ability to think? Does that mean you won’t eat
anymore? What about the babies who don’t know any word yet?



When the car comes suddenly, do you actually think?
When you’re walking, do you think about how to walk, or that
you are walking?



Please watch your actions and how many of them
really require thoughts. It’s clear that hands don’t move by
just thinking move, move, move. So, what is it that is
moving the hand? Is there any concrete entity that is doing it?


Thinking is a tool or faculty used by me when i want to perform actions.


What is the I and me in the above sentence?


But most of the times, i need to believe actions happened or thinking led to actions automatically without me getting involved.


Does thinking make actions happen? Can you be 100% sure about it?



And “actions happened automatically without me getting involved.”
Is that a belief, or reality?


No. It's more a feeling of aliveness or activeness. Not particularly localized.


Please keep feeling that particular feeling, and report what came up.


No. It's more like that's mine. How can you dispute that? Stop messing around with what's mine.


Is that something more than just thoughts?



Warm regards,



Bananafish


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