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Tom
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Hi

Postby Tom » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:12 pm

Hello, Liberation Unleashed!

My name is Tom and I live in Bristol, UK. I am interested in science and philosophy.

The background and content of my spiritual search includes The Alexander Technique, readings of C.S. Lewis, Eckhart Tolle, Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, A Course in Miracles. Also watching an awful lot of YouTube videos!

I experienced liberation about 2 or 3 years ago; I can't remember exactly when, nor can I remember the precise sequence of events. It is only in retrospect and as a result of reading some of the accounts here that I can interpret this as having happened. (I knew it was significant, but I didn't know in what way.)

The realisation occurred in a dream, the last in a succession of 3 or 4 important dreams.

In that dream my mind, which had been churning over a sequence of disturbing thoughts, seemed to stop. There was no thought, but I remained aware. I dreamt this as floating in warm, still air. It was a wonderful release and a very pleasant feeling. Because there was no thinking going on, this was evidence that 'I" was not my thoughts, so the identification was broken.

For several days after this dream, I felt a deep peace. Situations which might have generated a lump in the throat no longer did so.

However, the peace did not last. I would say I have re-entered the 'void' on only a few occasions in the last few years, mainly at night in response to distress.

I found LU and its associated constellation of blogs via one of Ciarin Healey's blog essays, I think because of a reference to Karl Popper.

I am awestruck that people have been using simple questions and dialogue to liberate others in a matter of days.

An immediate takeaway idea for me is that realisation can be deepened and that this may be achieved simply by re-entering the void periodically.

I have some ideas about what is going on here, but more importantly I have been doing it myself 2 or 3 times per day for the past week or so. Already I am feeling calmer and I would be interested in any advice LU can provide about this process.

Thanks for reading!

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vinceschubert
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Re: Hi

Postby vinceschubert » Fri May 04, 2012 9:31 am

Gidday Tom,
I would be interested in any advice LU can provide about this process.
This is not a place where advice is given.
As it appears that you may have already passed through the 'gate', i will just ask some questions to confirm and then you will be invited to a Facebook group called Unleashed where support for deepening is given.
..'I" was not my thoughts, so the identification was broken.
So Tom, does an I exist ?
and How does self work ?

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Tom
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Re: Hi

Postby Tom » Tue May 15, 2012 6:35 pm

Hello Vince!

Apologies for the delay in replying.

> does an I exist ?

The short answer is: no, 'I' does not exist as I previously experienced and conceived of it. There is no central thinker of thoughts, there are just thoughts. There are also emotions, a brain, some knowledge and skills, a body, memories, and the stories about my life that I tell to myself and others (which no doubt differ somewhat from the true history!)

When I 'saw' the false self for the first time I felt an alarmingly strong sort of wobbly feeling in my chest. I guess that was fear.

Since I am not particularly 'deepened' and still apparently lack the 'inner space' which others speak of I think there have been plenty of times -- perhaps most of the time -- where the ego has got back in the driving seat. I guess this to mean that fear has periodically controlled my thinking. Recently I have been returning to love more and more frequently. It always seems to be accompanied by an experience of the inner body (e.g. within the chest or behind the face).

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vinceschubert
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Re: Hi

Postby vinceschubert » Wed May 16, 2012 1:24 am

Morning Tom, good to hear back from you.
a couple more questions and i will ask for confirmation and an invite to Unleashed group on Facebook.
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

How does it feel to see this?

How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, enabled you to 'see' the conceptual nature of self?

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Tom
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Re: Hi

Postby Tom » Thu May 17, 2012 4:29 am

I think it all starts when a child learns language. Pronouns such as ‘I’ and ‘you’ in everyday english embody implicit theories about selves, as so do our given names. A child unconsciously conjectures that the ‘I’ exists and tries to defend it when anything that he has attached the ‘I’ to is threatened. To begin with this includes things like favourite toys and parental attention. Later on it might include money, one’s nation, sports team, material possessions, political opinions, etc.

Western culture values education, productivity and creative thought: identification with the thinking mind is strong. This means that our attention is away from the inner body, which is where emotions reside. (Or perhaps they reside in the brain in some kind of internal map of the body, but that isn’t relevant here.)

What isn’t widely appreciated is how emotions like unfelt fear feed back into and affect our thinking. The more fearful and stressed we are, the more rapid, frequent and distorted our thoughts become. Perversely, people experience this as a strengthened self (more thoughts == more ‘I’); this is despite the fact that the thoughts might be sterile and repetitive. Fear acts to contract the mind and leaves us ultimately in a grey, loveless world. Yet, without realising, we become addicted to it.

So, for example, I used to drink large amounts of coffee because I enjoyed doing so and believed that it helped me to read more. I continued to drink large amounts even after realising that it made me pretty stupid (after the third or forth cup!)

However, I was lucky: in extreme cases people get addicted to violence, which on the face of it seems totally irrational, or drugs, or they become mentally disordered. There are many possible manifestations and symptoms.

Over time the accumulation of fear causes guilt, blame and suffering. As I understand it is this is the sense of sin which is addressed by the major religions.

There is now a psychological impetus for realisation of no-self to occur. I suspect that whatever one most values in life, if it is pursued hard enough, an impasse is eventually reached.

In my case, the ‘last bit that pushed me over’ was rather mundane. It was shortly before bedtime and I had finished reading a book which left me tired. Yet my mind was urging me to watch an important movie before sleeping. I felt exhausted at the prospect.

Then quite suddenly I decided that I had had enough. Abandoning the movie, I lay down in bed and decided that it was time that the something-that-had-been-building-up-to-happen happened. I literally let go of me.

I hadn’t known that this could be done, but I am sure that it was a voluntary act. There was the wobbly feeling in the chest that I mentioned previously and a fear of losing the self completely.

It is of course difficult to describe to another person, even assuming that it is somebody who wants to hear about it. (Many people don’t want to hear and egos exert creativity in defending themselves.)

The self that I feared losing had been there as a background sensation all my life, but being constant it had gone unnoticed until the breaking point was reached.

Biological senses in general respond only to changes in the environment, including the internal environment. Only when the false self was made unstable by active enquiry and doubting was I able to perceive it. While it is perceived it is not identified with and thoughts become free.

I hope that answers most of the questions! Three things I think I ought to mention are (1) these events took place a while ago now and I am less sure what life used to be like beforehand: I may have got used to the changes (2) assuming it was realisation, I didn’t appreciate this at the time, nor did I learn until recently that there was a possibility of deepening it (3) I seem to have approached the 'seeing' from the emotional end rather than by trying to trace ‘I’ thoughts to their source (as I have heard tell).

Thanks for reading :-)

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Iida
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Re: Hi

Postby Iida » Thu May 17, 2012 11:24 am

Hi Tom!

You write beautifully and very clearly...
However there's something I'd like you to clarify a bit more since I'm afraid I didn't quite what you're saying (could be just because of my English).

"An immediate takeaway idea for me is that realisation can be deepened and that this may be achieved simply by re-entering the void periodically.
I have some ideas about what is going on here, but more importantly I have been doing it myself 2 or 3 times per day for the past week or so. Already I am feeling calmer and I would be interested in any advice LU can provide about this process."

So what are you referring to when you say "doing it myself 2 or 3 times per day..."?
Re-entering the void or something else? 
What do you mean by re-entering the void and achieving?

Please elaborate a bit more on this.

Love,
MarieSophie

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Tom
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Re: Hi

Postby Tom » Fri May 18, 2012 2:08 am

MarieSophie:

Hello and thank you!

It’s been helpful to write about this as I now realise that the dream in which thought seemed to stop (which I mentioned in my first post) and the book-and-movie incident (which I mentioned in my last post) were separate events. I wish I could remember the order in which they occurred.

About ‘re-entering the void’ -- I think that phrase came from one of you guys in a blog but I may have read it before.

This is something I was trying about a fortnight ago. I interpreted it to mean closing my eyes and directing attention to the inner body; I was doing about a couple of hours total per day. It was relaxing and there was some welcome dissipation of fear (which I experienced as a tingly feeling in the solar plexus among other places). However for some reason it eventually didn’t seem like a long-term solution.

Here is the problem: when I look for the self there is just emptiness and that is fine. On the other hand I do frequently seem to forget this fact during other activities with the result that fear and misjudgement can creep back in.

Fast forward: what I have been doing the past few days is continually trying to catch my mind when it wanders, thereby allowing it to return it to the present moment. Also trying to pre-empt wandering by checking what feelings arise during all the little decisions I make, including what to think about. There seems to be increased awareness of the right side of my face although presumably this may just be a quirk or a fancy of mine.

It’s all new territory which is what motivated me in the first place to compare notes with LUers.

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Iida
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Re: Hi

Postby Iida » Fri May 18, 2012 7:31 am

Hi Tom!

Thank you for your reply and welcome home. :)

"Here is the problem: when I look for the self there is just emptiness and that is fine. On the other hand I do frequently seem to forget this fact during other activities with the result that fear and misjudgement can creep back in."

Yes, that's very usual and the process of this getting more clear and abiding will continue, but after seeing no-self it continues with much less effort since the knowing is there already and recognition has happened.

Hope to see you soon on facebook!

Sending love
MarieSophie

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vinceschubert
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Re: Hi

Postby vinceschubert » Fri May 18, 2012 8:34 am

Fast forward: what I have been doing the past few days is continually trying to catch my mind when it wanders, thereby allowing it to return it to the present moment. Also trying to pre-empt wandering by checking what feelings arise during all the little decisions I make, including what to think about. There seems to be increased awareness of the right side of my face although presumably this may just be a quirk or a fancy of mine.
Hi Tom, all of the above is good stuff, But the is a concern here that you are DOING it with the expectation of Results.
That (if that is what is happening) is how a new identity can be born.
What we are talking about is conditioning. Habit, and this will evaporate with exposure.
It may be that thoughts (and their offspring - emotion, or sensation) will continue after recognising them and identification is dropped, but as useless thoughts after that they will disappear unless there is still a hidden identification.
There is no finish to the ongoing process you are experiencing. (maybe)
The choiceless choice of accepting Everything that IS Now (and exposing resistance) is the 'path' here.
Anyway, lots of this kind of processing happens in Unleashed, so friend me on Facebook and i will invite you to join.
https://www.facebook.com/vince.schubert

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Tom
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Re: Hi

Postby Tom » Sat May 19, 2012 12:40 am

MarieSophie:

Thank you and love to you too :-)

Vince:

I think I see what you mean about doing and the risk of forming a new identity. I'm not on FB but I'll have to look into joining.

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vinceschubert
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Re: Hi

Postby vinceschubert » Sat May 19, 2012 9:18 am

Hi Tom, i was somewhat anti-facebook, but it is a valuable resource to discuss aspects of post gate experiencing with many others, and to contribute to their deepening.
Guiding is also very rewarding with lots of learning, and the more people that 'wake up' the better off the world will be. (just an opinion there)
In the meantime, feel free to discuss anything with me vinceschubert@gmail.com

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vinceschubert
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Re: Hi

Postby vinceschubert » Sat May 19, 2012 10:53 am

Hey Tom, there's a new sub forum for post gaters here; http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... m.php?f=30
and a small doc worth reading here; http://liberationunleashed.com/PDF/Awakened.pdf
and a great video here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Biv_8xjj8E

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Tom
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Re: Hi

Postby Tom » Sun May 20, 2012 2:54 am

Vince: thanks very much for the links :-)


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