Pema and Walbart

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vinceschubert
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Pema and Walbart

Postby vinceschubert » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:10 pm

Pema, Walbart will be with you as soon as he is available.
In the mean time, please describe your current 'state' in a free flowing descriptive way.
vince

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Walbart
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby Walbart » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:42 pm

Hi Pema, ready when you are. Let me know where you are and what's going on.

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PemaLemos
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby PemaLemos » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:19 pm

Glad to be here.
I´ll try my best to write this down, as I´m portuguese and english is a bit of a challenge for me.

Despite the ever greater confidence in the perfection of being and finding the joy and ease of this moment,
I find myself stuck so many times I dare to confess my life reflects this very condition(ing) right now, in the most simple and practical ways: for two years I can´t seem to support myself finantially or persist in the real job/career that I love. I´ve been told by everyone close that I do not have the necessary consistency to build/endure long lasting relationships - because it scares the sh** out of me - I notice/know that it´s not about what is going on, if I am this or that, but I cannot seem to leave that be and find the ease of decreasing all those identifications. I´m totally caugh up in this core story and it would be nice to enjoy -that, to exist, to.. let it be. Or not, it would just be nice to put up A life together and pay the bills.

My clever response was to live in India - playing the story of being on a path - it didn´t work.
I feel like I´m stuck at the gateless gate for two years now, stuck in the victim story that is at the core of every experience/person/wheel of happening.

I could add that it seems to go from total confidence - spontaneous "miracle" happening (the natural way) to extreme shift in such a way that people, dreams, situations, get so intense/difficult I swear it´s a plot from a drama movie ;) Seriously, I can´t figure out a way through.. although the way is trough (period) - I definitely need some guidance.

Maybe I´ll be laughing at this in a day or two, maybe thoughts will change but there is something at the very core of my human drama story that is not allowing my confidence in life to allow everything to run freely...
I would love to know what or why.. (and I´ve taken long looks at the victim/I am not good enough story telling)

thanks for reading, hope that this has enough pointers and that is was not to vague :P :)

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Walbart
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby Walbart » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:03 pm

Hello Pema,
I’m glad you’re here, and thanks for sharing. Don’t worry about language, I’m Scottish, so English is difficult for me too…

The first thing I’ll say is let’s just be 100% honest and direct. Background stories are great fun & drama, but they’re not really needed here. But you do seem to understand that “you” are a story, so that’s good.
I can´t figure out a way through
There is no way through this, that's why it's known as the gateless gate :P

Whatever is happening in your life (in the drama, the story of "your" character that unfolds moment by moment), there is no escaping it. There is nowhere different to go, and no one different to be. This is life, living, and “you” happen to be an experience of it.
my human drama story that is not allowing my confidence in life to allow everything to run freely
This is exactly right. It's a "human drama story".

Are you familiar with the concept of seeing the world through rose-tinted glasses? The world/life is here, now, and "your" experience of it is through the character of Pema. Through a Pema-tinted lens. There's no escaping this ever. Just see it for what it really is, a lens, a character, a false untested assumption. Where does this leave you? Where is the victim in all of this?

When you feel lacking in confidence, can you look and see where this comes from? What is the trigger? How long does it last?

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Walbart
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby Walbart » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:26 pm

but there is something at the very core of my human drama story that is not allowing my confidence in life to allow everything to run freely
Could you try to look into this? What is at the core of the story? What does it feel like?

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PemaLemos
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby PemaLemos » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:15 pm

Hi Walbart, nice to meet a fellow friend from Scotland :9

I´m not sure I know how to look (!), because all I does is get lost up here, in my mind/memories. I definitely feel that the more I look the more there´s awe of how all these stories/emotions pop-up almost as present experiences.

When you ask where does the lack of confidence in that perfection comes from - I "kind of trace back" another story in time (it´s like an emotional timeline) with a clear innocent-victim face on it, Im very much identified with that kid.
What triggers this lack of confidence in Presence is definitely fear of being hurt and consequently of not being good enough. This leaves me exactly at "that" very moment/experience - feeling scared and unable to move on.. (how **ed up does that sound) - maybe that´s why I love to space out instead of grounding and get lost in magical thinking (visions)

.. there´s a genuine fear of being utterly free and utterly authentic.

Am I in the right place here?

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Walbart
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby Walbart » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:40 pm

Yeah, you're in the right place, this is very good.

Your story is like a timeline. If you could rewind the film and watch closely you'd see exactly where all the experiences, events and conditions got tagged on and made up who you are today. Creating faults, habits and even some good bits! Memories of all these things flit around still, seemingly at random, or triggered by thoughts or new experiences. It's all going on like a mini-hurricane. All these bits of you, precious memories, fears, thoughts. If you feel un-confident, or like you're not good enough, there will be something back along your timeline that created the momentum of these fears.

I didn't want to get to this so soon, but all you really need to do here is look at these fears and negative emotions and find out what they are made of. What is the hurricane of your character made of?

And what is behind all the aspects of your personality? What lies at the core?
.. there´s a genuine fear of being utterly free and utterly authentic.
This fear is genuine. But what does mean? What does it point to? So what. Look at it and see what you can learn from it. This whole thing is easier than you think. (And that's not some tricky statement with a hidden meaning).

Keep going!

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Walbart
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby Walbart » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:49 pm

I´m not sure I know how to look
It took me a while to discover what looking meant.

Everything that you can be aware of is an object.
These objects can be called the contents of experience.
Your hand is an object.
The sensation of your hand is an object.
If you close your eyes the thought of your hand is an object.

So what is it that is "looking" at these objects?
If everything you think of as "you" can be classed as the "contents of experience",
then what's looking? Where are you? Where's your vantage point?

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Walbart
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby Walbart » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:12 am

Pema,

How you doing?

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PemaLemos
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby PemaLemos » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:10 pm

Hi Walbart

it´s good, hw are you? I didn´t write yesterday because those were a lot of questions (triggers), but they gave me the opportunity for core emotional integration - I remembered very specific situations that triggered a lot of fear and were a building block for the self "i need to protect myself, my identity from this world no matter what" - I just didn´t know any better, it was innocent, all of it.

For the conscious part of it, I feel this was at the center of the hurricane of this character, because a silent relaxation/observation took over after this integration or recognition.. It was like a (fire) fierce need to control and protect/shield myself from every single income/communication/Life itself - pretty basic I guess but what a gigantic wave..

There´s just resting.. a deep relaxation with all the stories and thoughts and even physical tension - although when I don´t understand what that muscle is doing and why is it so tense, there is this panic alarm inside, until the final recognition that this tension is also perfection without the mind having to go around it - or to focus on it in order to release the knot.

Today there is a lot of "I´m almost there, keep working on it" thought patterns but I don´t beat myself up about it, there´s a very gentle presence making it very simple, situations and people immediately change around - is that an advantage point?

It definitely feels quiet and peaceful.. even when the muscles contract and the thought is My thought, there´s a growing confidence "behind" that bridges the timeline flashes of truth with the real conviction in the perfection of being..

Ps-It was quite interesting to notice something in the body yesterday. I always had a lot of unbarable pain in my knees when I did more intense Yoga practise. So yesterday, after paying for a teacher training intense program, my knees started hurting as if I had done those two months of intense workout - as I allowed that perfection/pain to take hold of and release the thought "it´s not supposed to hurt" and "something is wrong because it hurts" - it slowly calmed down. Thank you for all of this.

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Walbart
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby Walbart » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:51 pm

Hi Pema,

Enjoy the peace and relaxation, it's here all the time.

Can I be blunt and ask what exactly the problem is? I mean, you see that the character of Pema is blowing a gale but that it is just a story, right? There is peace, and then the movement of the body through life creates waves and turbulence, but it's all just exactly as it should be. Seeing this will lead to less resistance. The resistance is imagined. It is wispy, a mirage. Your experience comes from the human body process, just sensations, and then the brain starts to acknowledge and store info and learn, and then slowly Pema identification comes up. Try to see your experience without the character. From behind it.

There's nothing there. Just a body and it's story and it's passage through life. Unhook your connection to what you think of as "you". It's just thoughts, and thoughts, and more thoughts. Watch them come, watch them go. See how they relate to whatever is happening, be it present experience, or anxious thoughts stirring up the hornets nest and spiralling. They won't last and they aren't true.

Fear is caused by believing what you think.

So what is behind fear?


I am 100% here for you to keep going with this.

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PemaLemos
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby PemaLemos » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:50 pm

The problem I guess is I´m not convinced and the whole process is absolutely exhausting most of the time, like too mental to be the real thing. There are moments of clear integration that afterwards seem unreal as if I was only shifting the belief in the thoughts, to another kind of (dis)belief in some mental/emotional relaxed spaciousness, rather than truly experiencing freedom, that is already present.
Instead I feel I need to do sadhana before being able to release the inherent massive resistance of Pema character, that battles with all that comes with a trans formative non-centered point of view. I´m not convinced so I can´t unhook.
Behind fear and cepticism in a way, lies absolute equanimity, it is watching the thoughts and writting the words, being the sunlight and my cat stretching in the sofa and the space between us all - from this emotional point that is just hitting a shift key from absolute to relative - it doesn´t really seem to do a difference experientially, not enough to bring about the end of suffering.

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Walbart
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby Walbart » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:52 pm

You don't need to be convinced of anything, you just have to look in your direct experience to see what's actually going on. It can seem impossible at first, it was for me, as the thoughts just come thick and fast and don't let up. Just remember that when there is suffering it is impermanent. And mostly, that it isn't even real.

You can sit and get stressed about this but that's also an illusion. Imagine you're a brand new TV set, shiny and hi-tech, but the most horrendous film is playing on you. It seems real but it can't affect you , it's just content, just the story. (Sorry for the rubbish analogy...)

Suffering is an episode. A story. Thinking you're not getting this and somehow don't deserve it is also just a story. Just thoughts. Look behind all of this. What do you see when you're not seeking and not struggling? There is life, and that will sometimes be peaceful and sometimes be difficult. But there's no one there to be affected by any of it. You don't exist. You aren't the underlying peace. That's just underlying peace.
Im not convinced so I can´t unhook.
There is no unhooking. There's no one to unhook. And there's no absolute or relative, that's a mind myth. There's just everything, and that includes thoughts of separation and suffering. But they're just thoughts. Watch them, name-check them, then watch them go. Stop struggling.

What are you identifying with Pema? Where is your centre?

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PemaLemos
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby PemaLemos » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:25 am

There is no center. The heart is everywhere. Thank you Walbart, to be so plain and straight about it.
I don´t really understand why the mind still identifies after experiencing truth but I do understand why some people need to go trough a lifetime of spiritual practise.

An angel sent me this
"If we attach to awakened awareness and turn it into an identity, we can get stuck in a kind of stubborn detachment that refuses to acknowledge our humanness or participate fully in the human condition. We all know people who withdraw to a lofty "spiritual" perch and look down with a certain condescension on the rest of confused and suffering humanity. On the other hand, if we attach to the body and personality, we're caught once again in the drama of loss and gain, love and hate, what the Buddhists call samsara. Living the nondual truth of our being involves walking the razor's edge between these two, absolute and relative, without falling over into one side or the other, being grounded as awareness while expressing ourselves fully and intimately in this human form. In reality, even the metaphor of the razor's edge breaks down, because once we find the edge it disappears, and we slip through into a boundless dimension of freedom, equanimity, and ease. Stephan Bodian"

I´m sorry for using a friend´s quote, I´m sure that is not the point, but it was sent at the perfect timing and it´s perfect for what I wanted to express
So let´s say, experientially, sometimes I know how make that slip consciously, other times I just get caught in the intensity of life. How wonderful would it be to open up to that edge and see it disappear permanently.

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Walbart
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Re: Pema and Walbart

Postby Walbart » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:05 pm

Hello,

The mind will always identify, that's what it does. Truth is always here but always unexperienced. Spiritual practise can be a fantasy diversion, or it can be the way to seeing what you're not. You'll never experience what you are, because you aren't anything. Do you see this? Is this the truth that you say has been seen?


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