Need some clarity

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caz
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Need some clarity

Postby caz » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:12 pm

Last week I met ilona. I happened to be driving her somewhere so we had some time. I told her stuff. She asked questions. She helped me to see protective beliefs that were getting in the way of just seeing the truth that there is no I. There had been such a build up of frustration as 'I' tried to battle and see the 'I' and of course there was nothing to see as nothing existed. There was a sense of lightness but I don't know about gates?! I feel very much that I still am 'selfing' ( as Paul hedderman coins it) ie that there is no noun or thing that is I but an action a doing that creates a sense of I.
Primarily my life has been heavily invested in thought and emotion. It's a hard habit to crack. I am looking at life beyond the story of me. This week has been interesting as the thought volume control turned down.. What else is there? Raw experience is so beautiful. Anger came today which was weird. Disappointment and confusion followed. And then gone.
I feel more relaxed now but there's so much more to grow into? I feel there is a need for support. I post here because well it happened somehow. But I don't really feel awake.
Love Caz

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Ilona
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby Ilona » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:58 am

Hi caz,

Great to see you here on the forum. :)
We can have a little chat and see where you are at.
Can you say that seeking dropped or it's still going on, if so, what is that you are looking for, what is unclear precisely?

Great to hear about thoughts slowing down, looks like something got relaxed and released. It is just the beginning of surrendering to what is. There is no end to it, no "done" just continuous unfolding.
Do you feel that there is something still incomplete?

When you say I, what does this word point to?

Looking forward to hear from you.
Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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caz
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby caz » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:43 pm

Hi Ilona
I was in Worthing today and thought of you! Thank you for responding. I would say that the seeking is still there but much less frantic. Each time I bring to attention that the fact that the reaction is for nothing. I can react with all this thought and emotion but really life is lifeing and it really makes no difference, other than a constricted sense in the body, which is unpleasant really. I am looking for there to be stillness....a quieter mind. And that there isn't an effort attached because the illusion is seen through. I wouldn't get upset with someone who believed in Father Christmas, if you know what I mean, but I am still invested in someone pissing 'me' off and actions happening to a 'me'. The 'me' lives on until somehow until it is remembered that it doesn't but it feels mechanical and clunky.
In this there is a surrendering to what is though......
When I say I, I mean there is a mind and a body and things are happening and the I points to that. This is an idea I have though, maybe? not a living reality. Some strands of attachment to the 'I', 'me', 'mine' live on and how can that be? In the Father Christmas analogy there is a believe and then there is no believe nothing in between. This is my confusion. I still am reacting like I believe in the I. Why?

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caz
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby caz » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:43 pm

sorry posted without saying goodbye!
much love
cazx

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Ilona
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby Ilona » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:37 pm

hi Caz,

It took more then a day to build a belief system around the belief in the i, so it takes time to de-construct. some patterns fall off easy, some not. question why is not the right question, it only creates more stories about all this stuff. the only answer is - just because :)

anyway, look at it like this. if you have a sore leg and someone punches it by accident, there will be a painful reaction. so with emotional wounds is the same- until they are there, unhealed, unconscious, reaction comes up. it is not bad, it is only showing you what else needs to be looked at. just notice reactions and patterns, feel the sensations that they bring up and see what is behind them. welcome them rather then saying the usual no.

trust that all that is happening is what should be happening exactly the way it does. otherwise it would not be here.

can you look and tell, what is that knows what is happening? is that knowing contained in the body?

sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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caz
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby caz » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:42 am

That helps a lot, thanks.Quite a lot of samskaras? don't know the right word? shit! coming up and working through. It helps to trust all that is happening as you say.
When I ask myself what is it that knows what is happening, there is peace and presence but I am no more able to say what knows than that. The whole of experience knows, a cognizance? awareness just is knowing....not able to get any more than that. But I will keep looking.
And yes its in the body, everywhere. But when I see 'out there' that is happening in me. the seeing is closer than I can describe.

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Ilona
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby Ilona » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:45 am

Yes, what is looking is undescribable. Words fall short. Peace and aware presence is there, silence, joy.

Take a look is it body that experiences or body is experienced?
Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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caz
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby caz » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:14 pm

...the body is experienced.....
just going to be with that for a while
lovecazx

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caz
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby caz » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:16 pm

but yes it is that way round, the body is experienced....

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Ilona
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby Ilona » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:26 am

How is it going, caz?
Can you say that YES it's clear that separate self is an illusion? If there is doubt, what else can we look at? If no doubt, are you ready for the final questions?

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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caz
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby caz » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:53 am

No doubt that a desperate self is an illusion. So much more to discover.

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Ilona
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby Ilona » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:44 pm

Sweet! Here are a few questions for you :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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caz
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby caz » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:14 pm

There is no separate self at all anywhere, no 'I','Me', 'Mine', Never has been and never will be!
The illusion of the self is created in thoughts. 'I' is a thought. Lots and lots of self referential thoughts constantly whirling and making lots of noise and being quite repetitive! Thoughts are believed and create a kind of internal dialogue that seemed to be controlling all the action. ie I am going to the toilet, when really that is just the thought being a mouth piece, the decision and all the necessary brain activity is already done by the time thought gets around to announcing it. Its so absurd really, so funny that I didn't notice it before!!

Before starting to talk to you and really examine my experience I had seen the horizon programme, for example, when the presenter is shown that the researchers watching his brain in the scanner, can see 6 seconds before he is aware of deciding what he has decided. I knew that thought came after the fact but there was no connection with my direct experiencing. I have been walking around and really looking at it and whats amazing is the amount of experience that I have been missing out on! Its beautiful, consciousness somehow expressing through all these people and trees and puddles and it all seems so alive and friendly.
What pushed me over the edge was looking at what is it that knows what is happening. That really cut through to what is really going on.
And of course you talking to me in the car and helping me to see the defenses around the I belief.
That was amazing , Its all amazing,thank you ,thank you!! I am so grateful that you here helping me and loads of other people see more clearly. You certainly have given me the clarity asked for!
I have just reread the funny typo i wrote 'Desperate self is an illusion' hahahah.
p.s I am sorry about my appalling writing and grammar etc. My excuse is that I am surrounded by maniacs all trying to ask me questions called my family!!!

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caz
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby caz » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:43 am

There was a final question. Do I choose?
No! Choices are made though. Like last night. The kids went out to trampoline in the dark! I thought what fun but I can't be bothered to go with them. A while later I found I was outside with them.

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Ilona
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Re: Need some clarity

Postby Ilona » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:35 pm

hi Caz,

thank you so much for answers! lovely.
i have no more questions for you and would love to invite you to join LU facebook groups. i will send you a PM.

very happy for you. and you know, it's a beginning of new chapter in life, one full of surprises. lots to discover!
sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com


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