What is life

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eksip
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What is life

Postby eksip » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:34 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
There is no boundries of body, it is connected with nature, seperation is an illusion.

What are you looking for at LU?

Looking For knowing that people talks about oneness, no-self, purpose of life, meaning of life, etc.
Want to see reality with orginal perception and understand reality that what is it, and what is happening

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Expect to help to understand quick that no-self, maybe can help to learn that i have not yet know about, life hack advices etc. I want to be guided by someone with wisdom and experience about spritual things.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?

Zikir means mantra in tasavvuf, while practicing it, dreamed about wierd things, Read mesnevi(mevlana) 6 times. Meditation

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

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Artst
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Re: What is life

Postby Artst » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:16 am

Hi, Eksip,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :). Glad you made it here. 

My name is Robyn. I can be your guide if that's okay with you. Should I call you Eksip or is there another name you prefer?

I will do my best to guide you to see that the “self” is no more real than Santa Claus, just as you may see a guy in a Santa suit yet never again believe it’s Santa Claus. 

During our conversation I will ask you a series of questions. For each, you will look at your own direct experience and answer with 100% honesty. 

It is best to avoid analyzing, speculation and debate. The mind will try to create distraction. 

It is vital that you really do each “experiment” I provide, answer each question and look at your direct experience — in the present moment — instead of relying on analytical thought or memory.

A couple of other things before proceeding: 
-Here's a link that shows how to use the quote function: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ[/
-Please try to keep up posting every day if you can for the sake of momentum. However things come up, of course, and that's okay. Just let me know when you're unable to respond and I will do the same for you. 
- It works best to put aside teachings, books, and videos for the time being so you can be more available to focus on your own experience. That's where we'll look. 

If you're okay with everything so far, we can start. 

Warmly,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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eksip
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Re: What is life

Postby eksip » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:36 am

Hi, Eksip,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :). Glad you made it here. 

My name is Robyn. I can be your guide if that's okay with you. Should I call you Eksip or is there another name you prefer?

I will do my best to guide you to see that the “self” is no more real than Santa Claus, just as you may see a guy in a Santa suit yet never again believe it’s Santa Claus. 

During our conversation I will ask you a series of questions. For each, you will look at your own direct experience and answer with 100% honesty. 

It is best to avoid analyzing, speculation and debate. The mind will try to create distraction. 

It is vital that you really do each “experiment” I provide, answer each question and look at your direct experience — in the present moment — instead of relying on analytical thought or memory.

A couple of other things before proceeding: 
-Here's a link that shows how to use the quote function: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ[/
-Please try to keep up posting every day if you can for the sake of momentum. However things come up, of course, and that's okay. Just let me know when you're unable to respond and I will do the same for you. 
- It works best to put aside teachings, books, and videos for the time being so you can be more available to focus on your own experience. That's where we'll look. 

If you're okay with everything so far, we can start. 

Warmly,

Robyn
Thank you for responsing. You can call me Emre, English is not my native language but i try to do it.

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Artst
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Re: What is life

Postby Artst » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:34 am

Hi, Emre,
Thank you for responsing. You can call me Emre,
You're welcome. Great!

English is not my native language but i try to do it.
No problem. You do your best and I'll do my best. 😀Just let me know if you don't understand something I write or if you have language questions, ok?

By the way, what is your native language?


Emre, here are some questions about your expectations.

1) What do you expect to happen as a result of this? 

2) What do you want not to happen? 

3) What are you hoping for? 

4) Please make a list of the things that should be different when you realize there’s no separate self (that weren't covered in the first 3 questions).

Sending love,

Robyn

_____________________________________________________
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eksip
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Re: What is life

Postby eksip » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:41 am

Turkish, Okay thanks.

Answer to questions:

1) it says there is an illusion so, expect to change in perspective of seeing life to real one, to sense mechanism of life, understanding meaning of life, to know what to do with life, to dive peace of ocean :)

2) going really crazy

3) is it like question 1?

4) should be not resisting, to have to being open everything that is happening, no-ambition to make different something...

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Re: What is life

Postby Artst » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:25 am

HI, Emre,

Thanks for your reply.

From now on, please put the questions I send you in quotes so I can easily see which answers are for each question.

to sense mechanism of life, understanding meaning of life, to know what to do with life, to dive peace of ocean
Yes, many people expect things like this. However, all there is to expect here is that you will see that the separate self does not exist, that it is an illusion.

going really crazy
Don't worry - sometimes uncomfortable feelings or fears may come up, but you won't lose anything. You will still be able to function just as you do now.

is it like question 1?
Good question. It's a little different. The first one is what you think will or should happen. This one is about what you want to happen. I think you did write about what you hope for in the answer to the first question. Do you have any other things you are hoping (wishing) will happen?

should be not resisting, to have to being open everything that is happening, no-ambition to make different something...
That's great for you to do your best not to resist, but if you do find yourself resisting, this is normal and you can move through it. 😊


Emre, please let me know if there are any other things you wish to happen from this.

It is good to express the hopes and expectations in order to see what they are. Now, I ask you to set aside your expectations and be open to however it goes.

The point here is to get at the truth and do it experientially, so that it is undeniable. If and when that happens, you will know the truth of “no self” and it will be obvious that it is reality. Seeing no I is similar to the discovery that there's no Santa Claus. Just as you may see a man in a red Santa suit yet know that he's not Santa Claus.

From this point forward, I ask that you answer by looking newly from just your experience, not from anything you have learned from others and not from any kind of reasoning or theorizing.
This is your process and I'm here to support you through the work you will be doing.

If you look for the I, what is there? Can you describe what you find?

I look forward to your reply.

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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eksip
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Re: What is life

Postby eksip » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:26 am

Emre, please let me know if there are any other things you wish to happen from this.
Yes, i was thinking the experience can trigger spritual experience that i have not know about yet. So if they are not going to happen i can set aside them :) just 'no-self feeling' and it is neutral feelling there will be nothing else?
If you look for the I, what is there? Can you describe what you find?
There is a body, I feel facial lines, as if i am looking behind from eyes.

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Re: What is life

Postby Artst » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:05 am

Hi, Emre,
just 'no-self feeling' and it is neutral feelling there will be nothing else?
This would be another expectation. There is no certain way that it will feel. It's best not to worry about what it will be like at all - it will be the way it will be.
There is a body, I feel facial lines, as if i am looking behind from eyes.
Thank you, Emre. Great first attempt at looking at direct experience.

The next thing for us to do is to show you how to really get at 'direct experience.' The inquiry at LU is based on direct experience (DE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts.

Direct Experience (DE) refers to your experience right now, without labels and thought stories. So, direct experience (DE) consists color, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple noticing of thought at face value. What thought says ie, the content of thought is NOT experience. This is evidenced by the fact that you cannot taste the word 'sweet'. When looking at direct experience (DE), you are looking at raw experience WITHOUT what thought says ABOUT the raw experience.
Thought layers concepts over direct experience. A thought (concept, idea, label) is never the actual. Some thoughts point to the actual, and some point to other thoughts, but the content of every single thought is just a story.

Here's an exercise for you to get super clear on what direct experience is. You can use an apple or substitute any other fruit, vegetable or simple object.

Look at the apple. When looking at an apple, there's color, a thought saying "apple" and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."  What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known. 

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe? 
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is just more thought. Direct, actual experience is sound, thought, color(sight), smell, taste and sensation.

Is there really an "apple" here, or only color and a thought ABOUT "apple?" Can "apple" be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT cannot be found in direct or actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in direct experience" - what you know for sure.

- Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
- Color (visual information) labelled ‘apple’ is known
- Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
- Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
- Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known. However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it a label?)

Let me know what you notice from this exercise and if you have any questions.

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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eksip
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Re: What is life

Postby eksip » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:35 am

direct experience consists thoughts but the content of thought is not experience. Thoughts help to remember direct experience. Feelling without thought has to be pure direct experince.

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Re: What is life

Postby Artst » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:53 am

Hi, Emre,

Thank you for your reply.

Do you understand how to use the quote function? Please use it in your messages so I can see exactly what you're responding to. If the video link I sent to you didn't make sense to you, I can send you the instructions in writing.
direct experience consists thoughts but the content of thought is not experience.
Yes, good!

Here's a question from the exercise: Is there really an "apple" here, or only color and a thought ABOUT "apple?" Can "apple" be found in actual experience?
Thoughts help to remember direct experience.
This is thought content - not direct experience. Do you see this?

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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eksip
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Re: What is life

Postby eksip » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:59 am

Is there really an "apple" here, or only color and a thought ABOUT "apple?"
As i understanding it, only Color and a thought about Apple.
Can "apple" be found in actual experience?
No
This is thought content - not direct experience. Do you see this?
Yes

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Re: What is life

Postby Artst » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:02 am

Emre,

GREAT!!

Now, looking at what you see in DE of an I/Self, please describe to me what you find.

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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eksip
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Re: What is life

Postby eksip » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:20 am

The inquiry at LU is based on direct experience (DE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts.
İt is wierd What it is i/self, i see body sensation and thoughts...

When i said
There is a body, I feel facial lines, as if i am looking behind from eyes.
is it not direct experience?

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eksip
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Re: What is life

Postby eksip » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:24 am

Body sensations like warm, cold, sounds...

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Re: What is life

Postby Artst » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:55 am

Hi, Emre,
What it is i/self, i see body sensation and thoughts...

Does this mean that sensation and thoughts are I/self?

There is a body. I feel facial lines, as if i am looking behind from eyes.
is it not direct experience?
Right - not direct experience.
This was your answer to the question, "If you look for the I, what is there? Can you describe what you find?"
1.Body is label. 2. Is body self? 3. Did you really feel facial lines or is there a sensation and thought "these are facial lines?" 4. "As if" starts a comparison, so is not direct experience.

Is there an I behind the eyes looking out or is there just seeing?

Emre, how's it going so far in terms of using English? Some of this seems like it might be difficult.

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life


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