Liberation LU interview with guide Kay
What is the story behind the name Kay? Where does she live, what does she do, what music does she listen to, does she have a hobby?
What is the story behind Kay? Not much to be honest. I live in Brisbane, Australia and live a very quiet, rather peaceful unassuming life. I just flow with however the day unfolds. I noticed some time back that I don’t fill my days, they fill me. I am not much of a music buff, but if I was given a choice, I am still an old classic rock ‘n’ roll girl from way back! My creative outlet is crocheting, and my new found creative outlet within that is amigurumi; which is another way of saying making stuffed toys. Yep…very unassuming…nothing to get, nowhere to go, and I feel content.
Could you tell us more about your path before LU? How did the search begin, what was wrong? What do I wish I knew before starting out as a seeker?
My search for truth began when I was a teenager, even though I had no clue that it was the truth that I was seeking. All I knew was that something wasn’t right; that something was missing. To me life didn’t make any sense when the only goal seemed to be; to get a good earning job, get married, have 2.3 kids, a mortgage with a white picket fence, a car, a dog and save for old age…and that was supposed to be the ‘happily ever after’! Sounded really banal and unfulfilling to me – and it was!
My first foray was religion, but I soon fell off the wagon as I couldn’t get my head around an angry, punishing and rather fickle God that had so many unrealistic rules and regulations. Why give people free will and then punish them for using it?! Some years later, after giving banality a fair go…there was a pull to seek again…but still no clue what I was actually seeking, although suffering and pointlessness were certainly the fuel. I found myself fossicking around New Age spirituality but that didn’t really throw any light into the seeking as I couldn’t understand how crystals, past lives, channellings, tarot cards, Reiki and angels were the answer to whatever it was that I was looking for. If anything it only increased my frustration, increased the confusion and the seeking.
There came a time when suffering became too much and I just wanted to have peace from a relentless hostile mind…to end the never ending suffering…it was then that A Course in Miracles (ACIM) inadvertently fell into my lap, and I knew that I had hit pay dirt. Here was something that was pointing me to something…I just had to figure out what it was pointing me to! I knew that whatever the book was pointing me to, was the answer to what I was seeking, even though it confused me and frustrated me at the same time; however it resonated very deeply on some level.
I can’t remember how I came to sign up for a guide at LU’s forum back in 2015…but it was at a time when the endless seeking was driving me insane, and like many, I thought seeing through the separate self would bring me what I really wanted! A life where there was no more pain, no more emotions, no more fear…just happily ever after – a life filled with abundance, happiness and love! Ha-ha…funny stuff, although didn’t feel funny at the time when that didn’t eventuate! I just wanted the seeking, the suffering - life as I knew it, to all end. Although the idea of the separate self was seen through, it was only the tip of the ice-berg. No, life didn’t change for the better and I still felt something was missing…so the seeking and suffering didn’t stop. It abated for a couple of weeks, but then continued for many months more, because there was an unquenchable desire for a deeper understanding of what this was all supposedly about…so seeing through the idea of being the finite separate self, was, only a beginning, and not the ending I was hoping for. Then, overnight, after another penny dropping moment, the mind went quiet and the seeking stopped, and the phase of the observer started…but the journey still continued, as that certainly wasn’t the end of the road either!
What do I wish I knew before starting out as a seeker? That once I had taken a bite of the apple...there was no turning back – not that there was ever really a choice as the desire for truth, freedom and peace of mind were way too strong. That a road paved with bliss, light and love was illusory, and that the journey could be so very isolating, lonely, fearful and confusing. There were many times when I wished I could just step off the path, but now, I have a different story and sing a different tune, and I will give an Amen to that!
A few words about your thread? Do you remember what beliefs you came with and what you found out at the end?
Actually it was my follow up thread that I found most helpful. Although the separate self had been seen through in my initial thread, it was through my follow up thread that I got to see that I was not the thinker of thought, or the controller of ‘my’ life, or the chooser/decider. The relief I felt when I realised this, was the greatest gift I could ever have been given, and it is this gift that I like to pay forward. These realisations were the foundation that were eventually to bring about the peace and the freedom that I had been seeking, for 40 odd years.
Regarding all these New Age spirituality stuff (crystals, past lives, channellings, tarot cards, Reiki and angels) and probably many more. If someone asked for your advice now, what would it be like? Do you have any tips for those looking for answers there? Something like a shortcut?
Absolutely not…I have no advice to give whatsoever! Everyone’s journey is their own. Going from my own experience, there was no magic wand, so no shortcuts either! How the journey unfolds, is how it unfolds, and unfolds perfectly for each and every one! Although I didn’t understand what all of that was for, or about back then; when I reflect, I can see it was all about looking for answers in the world, which, to me, is depicted by The Fool in the Tarot cards! The naïve, directionless fool grasping at anything and everything in search of answers in order to find the meaning of life; in order to find the truth. However, with hindsight comes wisdom, as I can see how each part of the journey has led me to where I am now. So, no matter the stepping stones…they are all an integral part of the road that eventually leads you ‘home’.
What would you say the Liberation Unleashed process is exactly? What is it that happens in all these thousands of conversations?
Now that’s the $64 million dollar question! It is the beginning of the undoing of everything you thought yourself to be. The belief you have had about yourself is gently teased apart through experiential pointers, which brings about the seeing, first hand, that there is no ‘me’ as a finite separate self. This realisation must bring a shift in perception, and does…how can it not? If you believed the world was flat and then experienced it as round…your perception of the world must change, along with all associated peripheral beliefs. Funnily enough, I used to say to people, before knowing anything about any of this… that if I couldn’t see it, then it didn’t exist! What an accurate talisman that saying ended up being! Life has its funny little jokes!
What needs to be stipulated here as well though, is that realising ‘no self’ is a major realisation but is one of many, and there will be more to follow well after the conversation has come to an end, as what is seen cannot be unseen and there is further looking to be done.
Some may say that seeing that there is no separate self is a nihilistic approach to life, that it is denying personal experience. What would you say about that?
For me, it had the opposite effect. Meaninglessness, pointlessness and the purposelessness of life had been my dancing partners for many years prior to seeing through the idea of a ‘me’. They were dark years. The underlying feeling of there being something wrong with me was all pervasive, because I couldn’t find meaning and purpose to life. No matter what I did, I just didn’t fit the bill of what a together and successful person should aspire to, or be. It was such a relief to know that, actually, life in and of itself has no meaning, and I no longer needed to nut out the why’s of life, or find my purpose…there was peace to be found in that.
There are those who fall into nihilism after the realisation of ‘no self’ happens and I think that the nihilism is simply a pointer….like everything in the world is simply a pointer. Nihilism simply points out that although the realisation of there being no separate finite self may have happened; there are still many tentacles ie beliefs and conditioning attached to that core belief, which have yet to be realised and undone. As I mentioned earlier, realising there is no separate finite self is a beginning and not an ending.
How are your relationships with friends and family now that you are approaching life with a deeper view? Have things changed at all? And what would you say is the biggest difference in how you lived before this realization and how you live now?
As layers of misperception are seen through, the deepening continues and with it my attitude towards everything changes, which in turn changes how I see and relate to myself, others and life. How can those relationships not blossom when there are no conditions put on who or what they are, or how they should be? As I am freed from the many limitations that veiled my reality, the innate freedom and the peace within is also unveiled along with it and are extended to everyone and everything.
What would I say is the biggest difference in how I lived before this realisation and how I live now? The once perpetual roller coaster ride of endless fear and suffering is no more. Peace abides and I feel content with life. There is nothing missing, nothing to get, therefore there is no need for life to show up any differently to how it is unfolding in any given moment. This is freedom.
For how long have you been guiding in LU and how many threads have you guided?
I started guiding back in 2015 and have guided approximately 175 threads at the Gate, with more being guided at the Further Investigation forum. Out of those 175, only 66 actually had the realisation. Less than half. Many just drop away. It takes 100% commitment and an open willingness to question all beliefs in order to have the realisation. It can’t just be a nice idea, or an intellectual curiosity. You have got to want this deeply and pursue it with gritted determination. There must be a willingness to spend the time actually doing the inquiry and then practically applying it in your daily life, to see it in action on a daily basis. This inquiry is not just about sitting, pondering and navel gazing…you have to do the work...you have to do the looking.
Why a guide and not a teacher?
Teaching is about passing on knowledge, and knowledge about all of this can be found everywhere these days. Countless books, Youtube videos, Satsangs, podcasts, social media pages and websites pass on knowledge. But if it only took intellectual knowledge to have the realisation…then LU wouldn’t need to be, and there would be no seekers!
Guiding, on the other hand is about directly pointing to what is actually being experienced in the immediate moment via specific questions and exercises. It is a means to see through the conceptualised and perceptualised, so that a person can experience, first-hand, the reality of what’s actually happening. And when this is done, it is certainly eye-opening! It is through these experiences of seeing what actually is, that brings about the realisation. The beautiful thing about guiding is that there is no need to convince anyone of anything. All that needs to happen is for the person to shift from thinking to looking carefully at what is being pointed to, for them to see it for themselves.
Could you tell something to those who have fear and postpone their exploration in LU?
Fear is normal and is something that is looked at with the guide during the dialogue. When seeing through the illusory “I”, the fear is that one’s entire identity is lost with it. The irony is that there has never been a finite separate self, ever, so how anything be lost - other than one’s false perception of how things seemingly are? Life continues on as it always has. What is being pointed to at LU, is that there is ‘no self’ as it is thought to be. It is not an experience of ‘no self’ since there never was one in the first place! When a mirage in the desert goes poof, the desert doesn’t go poof with it!
What are the most common expectations and misconceptions you have to deal with when guiding?
The expectation is an end goal of being totally rid of the pesky ego who is making life a misery, and when that happens, trumpeting angels and blazing flashes of white light will appear as confirmation that the realisation of ‘no self’ has happened and life will then be lived happily ever after in a wonderful haze of love and bliss! I know it well since it was my hope too! The desire is that life will magically turn itself around for the better, and any or all emotional pain, depression, addictions, fear, grief, sadness, anxiety, lack, conflicts, physical impediments, mental health issues, relationships, jobs, illness, seeming brokenness and other problems…anything deemed to be ‘not good’ will no longer be. Funnily enough, this is also the fear! Who would I be without my story?
The reality is that when the realisation happens, the shift can be very subtle and therefore seem lacklustre and be deemed to have not happened at all. Years of conditioning and erroneous beliefs do not fall away in one fowl swoop as concrete proof that the realisation has happened! Every expectation is actually a hindrance because it can blind side the fact that the realisation has actually happened. It’s best to put aside all expectations and just become aware of what the current actual experience is.
What would be your advice for those who completed LU process and had the realisation?
Doubt and confusion will arise after the realisation, and long after the dialogue is done and dusted. The key is to keep looking so as to strengthen what has been realised because there will be many periods of flip flopping. Flipping from clarity and flopping into doubt and confusion...looking again and again and again until flipping back to clear seeing...this is all very normal, and can also be very frustrating! The prevailing thought of never ‘getting it’ and forever flip flopping adds to the minds melee! As long as looking is continued, further insights will happen bringing about deepening awareness…and eventually, the flip flopping does pass…just not in the time frame one would like!
I can’t stress enough that the realisation, albeit a major realisation, is just a beginning and not an ending. Old habits, beliefs, patterns and conditioning that seem to keep the idea of the separate self a reality, do not disappear overnight, so there must be a willingness to continue to look in order to see completely through the separate self story. On the brighter side, as the core belief has been shaken, rattled and rolled…these patterns, beliefs etc no longer have a strangle hold they once had, because the foundation they were based upon is no longer solid and are therefore more easily unravelled.
The other thing I would like to add is that wanting to find - to know - what you really are may surface. There is a seeming need to identify as a someone or something to take place of what is being dis-identified as. If I am not a ‘me’, then what am I? This is a fools errand and will only set up another round of seeking to find an object or a description in order to know what is, which are themselves, just more concepts. I like how A Course in Miracles (ACIM) speaks to this:-
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all of the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. It is not necessary to seek for what is true, but it is necessary to seek for what is false.
Is there anything else you’d like to add? Anything you want to share?
Without LU, I have no clue where I would be today. Being given the gift of seeing through the illusory self, then the gift of being a guide, which helped so much in deepening this awareness, is priceless. And it is a gift that continues to give, not only to myself or to those who are interested in ‘awakening’, but also to those who aren’t, as how I interact with others and life has changed and continues to do so. As Mahatma Gandhi said, “be the change you want to see in the world” - this how it is being experienced here.