If you are seeking to end the seeking, come in here.

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Walbart
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Re: If you are seeking to end the seeking, come in here.

Postby Walbart » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:15 pm

Just writing this out here, trying to finish it.

So what is the truth of my situation?
I know, because of investigation, that I no longer identify with an assumed self that exists within, but separate to, this body.
Careful. Try not to get abducted by beliefs.

I cannot seem to let go of identifying with something.
Which is why I'm now looking at the possibility that I am simply this brain & body. This human.
The hiccup here, is that if I examine this theory, I come to the conclusion that I am not the body alone, and I am not the brain alone.
I seem to be the body & brain, combined with its accumulated experience, stored memory, and its actions (which are determined by its conditioning).
If this is the case then it seems like the human machine is just a process and the "me" part is simply its story.

So how can I just be a story?

Can a story speak?
Can a story refer to itself?
What am I? That contains this sense of self, and this body, and these objects of thought and sensation?
Where am I? What am I?
I am never where this body is not.
This is a fact, based on experience.
So if thoughts, sensations, perceptions are all objects, where is the subject?
Where am I?

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Ilona
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Re: If you are seeking to end the seeking, come in here.

Postby Ilona » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:48 pm

how about dreaming, Walbart, you go to places while body is in bed. hmmm
can you tell me what is Walbart. look at him as a character in a story with likes and dislikes and so on.
show is on. is there an actor or just a play, in which a character is enquiring into what is reality. huh?

what comes up? keep going. getting closer now.

much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Walbart
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Re: If you are seeking to end the seeking, come in here.

Postby Walbart » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:18 pm

how about dreaming, Walbart, you go to places while body is in bed
Eh, no, not at all. Do you? Can you prove this?
All my dreams take place in my head. Awareness flitting through the remains of the day, images in my head, scenes and dramas played out while the body sleeps. Like daydreams, it's just the brain doing its thing.

I am a character, a story, yes. The story of what this human body has done. The story of its preferences, formed because of conditioning. I must be missing something so simple. I see I'm just a story, nothing tangible. I see I'm not the body or brain, not really. I'm still identifying with this assumed self which I know doesn't exist. Has no one been here before? Wasn't anyone else this stuck? That's me for the day, I've talked enough.

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Ilona
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If you are seeking to end the seeking, come in here.

Postby Ilona » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:34 pm

Two questions: what is left when thinking stops?

Are you the story? Story goes on by itself.
You are not a story.
How about character batman. It's fiction, right?
Same is walbart.

If I asked you to find batman in the room now, would you even look for it or would you just know that it's not real, that it's only a story.
If I told you to find walbart, why are you still looking? What do you expect to find? A pot of gold?
Walbart is only as real as batman.
Look from other peoples view at W, can you see that everyone will see him differently, there is no core.

Don't worry, you are not a worst case. Some people need more help then others, keep going.

And notice, that all this is going by itself. : ) all already is.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Walbart
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Re: If you are seeking to end the seeking, come in here.

Postby Walbart » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:01 am

what is left when thinking stops?
Ah, ok, I get you. When thinking stops there is peace. There is no me struggling. Thoughts bring the "me", so I can't be this body & brain after all. This human, without thoughts contains no sense of self. There is being, but no contraction to an "I". Is this right?

I am a character, Batman is a character. But he isn't logged in here trying to figure shit out! Or maybe he is, but no one's mean enough to tell him he's a sketch.

Reading my posts again, I seem to be contracting and expanding quickly, repeatedly. Clarity followed by confusion, insight followed by denial. May this end soon!

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Ilona
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Postby Ilona » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:52 am

Yes, when thoughts are not there there is still being that is aware if it's own beingness.

And then you say I am a character.
Character is. You isn't.
Play is on, but you are not an actor. There is only the play that plays walbart as a puppet.

You're not answering my questions. Take your time and really look at what I'm pointing. Don't think, write what you see as you see.

I am character- prove it to me. Prove it that it's not just a thought passing by same like a thought 'i am not a character'.

Is there anything real behind the thought I, or just more thoughts about I?

Answer when ready.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Walbart
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Re: If you are seeking to end the seeking, come in here.

Postby Walbart » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:16 pm

Yes, when thoughts are not there there is still being that is aware if it's own beingness.
What is this "being"?

Is there anything real behind the thought I, or just more thoughts about I?
It's just thoughts, all the way down!

I've been writing lots but am a bit wary about what to post here. I'll try to keep it brief.

The movement of this body
through the story (life)
creates the character.
The character, Me
believes it is the body. Or that it's inside the body,
or controlling it.
The character isn't really Me though.
(It's just actions, or characteristics, a role, a movement)

"Am I the character?" - is just a thought
"Who am I?" - just a thought
"Am I the conglomeration of mind, body, actions, thoughts and characteristics?" - thought

There is no "character" as a thing.
There is no "me" as a thing.
"But I am thinking! I know I am here!" - just a thought.
Thoughts produced by the characters' movement within the story, created by the movement of the body through life.

The human being is a mirror that receives and reflects experience back onto experience, but slightly changed due to the unique filter each one of us has.

I keep looking. Every thought that comes up is just that. A thought. Even the ones screaming about struggle and enlightenment. Nothing is going to change. Things won't look brighter, and my eyesight won't suddenly take on superhuman attributes so that everything glows and has an aura.

There is no thinker of thoughts. I am not thinking thoughts. "I am" is just a thought.
"But this feels like me" - thought, sense of self, not me.
Just the body, the brain, the story, the character.
If there's any identification with anything, remember that's only a thought too.
Any "I" is a fiction.
A thought can't ever be a Me.
And "I" is only ever in thoughts.

The movement of the body through the story creates the character. The illusion of me.
What did I see today?:
"I am sitting here" - thought
"No, really, I am here, this is me speaking inside my head" - thought
"I am not enlightened" - thought
"Dear God, I am struggling with this, I'll never get it!" - thought
"I am not this body" - thought
"I am this body" - thought
"I am awareness" - thought
"I am nothing" - thought
"there is no self" - thought
"I am the space in which these thoughts appear" - thought

The brain thinks thoughts. Like breathing.
There is no ego to have a problem with. Just thoughts. Get to the right vantage point and see it's ALL just thoughts.

The Jed analogy of the caterpillars and butterflies is terribly unhelpful. Better to say some caterpillars long to be butterflies and fuck up their lives and waste time dreaming. The winners are those who accept that they are caterpillars.

Anyway. What I'm seeing right now is It. It won't get any better or different. Maybe I'll just become more aware of the filter. Every thought of Me is just a thought. Thoughts of wanting things to be different, better etc are just thoughts. They aren't real. But they are good because unsatisfactoriness, however brought on, is like a fire-lighter. They instigate change, movement, which in my case was going from being asleep and complacent and dumb, to wanting to figure out what the deal was. The discomfort and longing is like scaffolding which can now be discarded.

I feel strange. Good. Is it possible that belief in a separate "me" has dropped away? And that I'm actually seeing this, rather than just understanding it? There's obviously still some work to do, like, ALL of my other questions! But am I done? What's new? Has anything changed?
I understand that I am not the body/mind, as those seem to be objects within awareness, or experience. Although I can't feel my brain, which is where senses are received, so technically "I" could be that. But hold on, what I am seeing is that this thing I've thought of as "me" all my life doesn't actually exist. And that isn't locatable. A few days ago I said "me" is this body's character, so I'm the body/brain. But this assumed separate me as a thing does not exist. The character doesn't exist, and that's what makes "me". The character doesn't exist as a separate thing.
The thing that produces "me" does not exist. So "I" don't exist either.
The movement of the body through life, or the story, creates the character. The body then seems to take on the role of this character that is just its own actions, conditioning, flavour, characteristics, preferences, apparent "choices". The body doesn't ever "think" it is this character, but thoughts are produced mechanically which enhance a belief system in a personal identification with the role.
And it's all just thoughts. So deeply ingrained and familiar that the thoughts take on a life of their own, creating the illusion that they are being thunk by a thing.(More thoughts).

"Why do I think I'm not enlightened yet?"
Ha! The answer's in the question. (Can't remember who I stole this from)
"Why do I think I'm not enlightened yet?"

"I am struggling", "I can't see beyond thoughts" - yes, just more thoughts.

What is behind "I"?
What lies at the end of an "I"?
Follow me, where does it lead, don't get lost.
Remember, there is direct experience, and then thoughts about direct experience.
"Where am I then?"
"Where is the person aware right now?"
Thoughts. The brain reflecting the body's apparent searching. Actions. Thoughts.
No thought can be trusted.
What am I?
Nothing, there is no me.
I am is all thoughts. Anything seemingly "internal" is a thought. Or a feeling. Or a sensation.
All my dialogues trying to figure this out.... just thoughts. Thinking. A process. No thinker. Reflections.

I've probably over-cooked my point. I feel great. Bring on tomorrow's doubt. But this time I think I'll know that it'll just be another thought.

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Ilona
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If you are seeking to end the seeking, come in here.

Postby Ilona » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:20 pm

Hahaha! Epic. Thank you. : )
For me it really hit it home when I saw that thought can not think. What a joke.

As for nr 1- being is a verb.

How does it feel to be liberated?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Walbart
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Re: If you are seeking to end the seeking, come in here.

Postby Walbart » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:19 pm

Thank you.

It feels exactly the same as before. Much better than last week though. I don't feel as sticky.

However, I just re-read the Heart Sutra, and I still don't understand it. Except for these lines:

Unfettered by mind,
no mind, no fear.
The imagined world is seen through.

Makes perfect sense.

Nothing is different, I'm still here in this life, with this character, with its preferences and habits. I'm aware that I'm not a thing anymore, and never could've been. Which is strange. But as long as I keep my eye on these thoughts...

I'll need to settle for a few days, see how it's going to work. This all seemed to happen yesterday but I didn't want to run here and post half-heartedly. It's still here though, the clarity, so "tomorrow's doubt" hasn't showed up yet. Which is a plus.

So I guess the clarity came yesterday when I went for a long swim. I was nervous about going, as usual (mild agoraphobia), but I thought why not just let the body go for a swim and leave the character and baggage behind? It worked. While swimming I was examining how the character works and what it is, I saw how empty it is. Then I saw how empty all the internal dialogue about it was too, and every time "I" tried to explain something back to myself I just checked it off as another thought, again and again and again. The difference from last week is that I really saw this in action clearly, and not just in theory. It wasn't just a nice idea, it was actually an obvious truth.

There's no doubt, but I'm still too nervous to shout from the rooftops and thank you with all my heart. I'll give it a few days.

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Ilona
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Re: If you are seeking to end the seeking, come in here.

Postby Ilona » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:26 pm

How is it going today Walbart? :))))
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Walbart
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Re: If you are seeking to end the seeking, come in here.

Postby Walbart » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:51 pm

Hello. It's going well. I seem to have less tension in my chest and breathing feels nice. Maybe this is just because I'm less uptight than usual.

There are various thoughts appearing:

"Is this all there is?"
"Am I really?"
"This can't be it"
"Nah, this must be it"
"This is shit!"
"Wow"

Some doubts but an underlying sense that yes, this is fucking it, stay calm! Both thoughts of course, but it's good to just watch them show up and do their thing. I don't expect this body's characteristics to change overnight of course, and many of them are self-doubting etc.

I'm still confused as to why this is so misrepresented by all the online "Masters". Hopefully things will clear up as this unfolds. Is there a next step? What comes after nothing? Should we talk about this more? Make sure it's real?

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Ilona
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If you are seeking to end the seeking, come in here.

Postby Ilona » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:58 pm

Oh yes it's real. And it's a beginning of new stage :) woo hoooo!
You made it :))
I'm delighted.

Next- joyride.. Nobody's driving, can relax and start looking around.

Facebook group 'unleashed' is brilliant for aftercare. And if any time at all you need some help, just send me a message. :)

Thank you..
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Walbart
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Re: If you are seeking to end the seeking, come in here.

Postby Walbart » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:00 pm

Thanks for everything, it means so much to me, you have no idea.
Nobody's driving, can relax and start looking around.
Sounds great!

I have lots of questions I'm sure, so I'll post on FB when ready. I also want to try to write about this and simplify a few things where I was stuck because of certain misunderstandings and assumptions. That can wait though, I want this to deepen and play it by ear. I think I'm still in shock, lots of staring going on here.

Thank you.

Thank you.


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